IRT & BMT Open Platform EL Gate Cars (MORE pics)

Very cool!  

Peter

Thanks for sharing, great photos

WOW - great looking models! Reminds me of the open platform BMT cars that ran on the old Myrtle Avenue El. I rode them to Navy St. when I attended Brooklyn Tech from 1956-1960.

Hello ART !

I remember very well the Brooklyn NY old BMT Myrtle Ave EL !! - 

Here is the LINK to my photo album of my O-Scale BMT EL Car Models

https://www.flickr.com/photos/...s/72157625966252884/

ALSO - Here are a few  photos of some of my scratch-built O-Scale BMT EL Gate cars -- in scenes on my "EL" layout that mimic the "Old Myrt".

I rode and photographed the Myrtle EL extensively from about mid 1956 thru its close in Oct. 1969. Rode the BU Gate Cars there and the later "MUDC" Q Types.  The "Q"'s were my "old friends", heh, from their recently being removed from revenue service by Dec 16, 1956 from the IRT Division 3rd Avenue EL.  They served on that Manhattan & Bronx EL line from May 1950 thru May 12, 1955 - and served 19 more months on the Bronx remaining part of the line.  They were stored on its then no longer used center express track...until mid 1957 and gradually over many following months removed in increments, to Coney Island BMT shops for overhaul for the Myrtle EL. And by May 1958 replaced all the BMT 1300 Series Convertible BU EL Gate Cars for Myrtle El service.

Fond memories riding the Q's on the IRT 3rd Ave EL - and from mid 1958 thru Oct. 1969 on the BMT Myrtle Avenue EL ! 

Anyway - enjoy these photos of some of my BMT BU EL Car O Scale models !

Regards - Joe F

And PHOTO BELOW is my O-Scale Q-Type train entering a center island platform station just as on the Myrtle Avenue EL !! As you likely remember them between 1959 and 1960.

The Q's had a very long and interesting Service life. These cars were rebuilt with closed ends and operating  doors from BRT BU Gate cars originally built in the first decade of the 20th century. The rebuild occurred in the late 1930s to provide BMT equipment for Worlds Fair service in 1939-40 for its share of the jointly operated Flushing and Astoria Elevated lines. They were painted in the NYC colors of Orange and Blue. They worked on these lines until 1949 when the Joint IRT BMT operation of these Queens Els was eliminated. The cars were then transferred to the 3rd ave El operation in Manhattan to replace composites then in service on that line. When they came back to the BMT in the late 1950s they ran on the Myrtle Ave El until 1969 when the line south of Broadway was closed and torn down. So0me of these cars were used in work service on Pump Trains. A set were preserved for the NYCTA museum and another set was rebuilt into Gate cars from whence they came. I saw a photo of some of these cars in the 39th street yard looking like they were on their way to the scrapper. The NYCTA had a long service and use period for this design spanning almost 100 years from when the cars were originally built as gate cars.

Gate cars ran on the BMT in the post war period on the Lexington Ave, Myrtle Ave and Fulton Street lines. During the war they ran to Park Row over the Brooklyn Bridge . After the Fulkton Street El was closed in Brooklyn, there was a special service on the Fulkton street El in Queens through Atlantic Ave, the Broadway El and the Lexington Ave El onto the Myrtle line, to Park Row and then as far as Bridge and Jay Street afer 1944 . This operation lasted until 1950 whenn the Lexington Ave El was closed and torn down. BU convertible Gate cars continued to operate on the Myrtle Ave El until 1957-58 when the Q cars replaced them. They have been the last convertible gate cars in service on the NYCTA .

I would like to see MTH or Lionel make a set of these cars . They are an interesting prototype and weree the mainstay on the NYC Els in those early years until the LoV;s on the IRT and the Standards on the BMT came along.

Hello LIRR Steamer

Thanks much for posting all the historical info ! I would have done so as I likewise know all of that history - but I was already writing too much, heh.  Glad you joined in with the excellent background history.

Well, to visually add to your historical data - here are some "model photos" on my "EL" layout to show in that "era", what the 1939 WF "BMT era" Q-types (for "Queens") looked like running on the EL along with (via Manhattan IRT 2nd Ave EL service to Queens via the Queensboro Bridge upper level, of course) IRT MUDC "EL" Cars.  And the IRT Standard body subway cars and the then new 50 car fleet of 1939 WF Steinway Body -- Low V subway trains. 

regards ! - Joe F

Hello ALL ----

Here are a few more RECENT interesting photos of some of my IRT EL Gate Car Trains, for those many modeler-viewers here following this thread.

Regards - Joe F

Hello Peter & Pennsyfan

Thanks both for coming here and taking a look - and of your appreciation of it.

Its appreciated by me !  Here is a photo scene on my layout depicting a somewhat later period (say 1970's) time

Regards guys - Joe F

Great post and excellent modeling. Thanks for the memories, I too rode the Myrtle Ave el in the 50s and early 60s. My dad was the pharmacist at the Brooklyn Hospital right behind Bklyn Tech on DeKalb Ave.

Hello Cocoloco !

Thanks also for stopping and taking a look here !

Here are a few short video clips copied from a VHS-C tape video I shot with my camcorder back in 1998 on my NYC EL Layout.

Seen is my fully scratch built train of O Scale IRT Manhattan EL MUDC (Multiple Unit Door Control) EL cars operating, as seen from a rooftop view, and one from a station platform view, as a local into one of the local stations on my EL...stopping, and then departing.  Also a platform view of one of my O-Scale IRT EL Gate Car trains entering a local station. I hope the videos play OK here on OGR.

The prototypes of these IRT EL cars last ran (and I rode them frequently) on the Manhattan (until 5-122-1955) and Bronx (until 12-15-1956) 3rd Avenue EL.

About 450 or so of these prototype cars were conversion-created by the IRT shops in 1923 after being converted at that time to closed end vestibule MUDC Door cars from Open End Platform Gate cars, originally built between 1901 and 1910.  The Manhattan 3rd Ave EL was my hometown neighborhood line while growing up.

Riding the 1300 series BMT EL Gate cars from 1955 thru May 1958, and the Q-Types (also fresh then from the Bronx IRT 3rd Ave EL service thru 12-15-1956) both on the Myrtle EL,  was a great pleasure and a continuation of many numerous "nostalgic  riding trips back in time"  until the remaining BMT Q-Type wooden EL cars and their lower portion original Myrtle EL ceased operations in October 1969.  The end then of the old wooden EL car operations era in NY City, and the USA !

Regards - Joe F

The three BRT Gate Cars last operated on a fan trip to Rockaway about 7 years ago. We boarded a train of R1-9 cars at the Columbus Circle station of the 8th Av. Line and traveled to the East New York Yards where we transferred to the 3 gate cars and proceeded across Jamaica Bay to Rockaway. Wow what a ride going across Jamaica Bay at 45 mph. Hope the cars will operate again someday.

Hello Ed (New Haven) ---

I have provided two You Tube Videos of the BU Museum Gate Cars in operation:

One is a VIDEO LINK to that trip in 2006. Its a full length (long) video.  It ran from the Linden Yards in Brooklyn to the ex-LIRR now IND Rockaway Line via the remaining short portion of the BMT Fulton St EL connection in Queens.

Here is the Video LINK URL:   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0pxeQGgfz4

Here is a shorter second video of the same train riding on the BMT Astoria EL in Queens - probably some earlier year, as filmed from one of the open platforms between two EL Gate cars.

Here is the Video LINK URL:    

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQNRRi__Ct8 

I'm sure you will enjoy both of these videos.  Videos of those Gate cars running are rare to find.

I am sure you are aware of, but for other readers not so, these 3 EL Gate cars were ORIGINALLY built new back around 1901-04 as BMT Open end EL gate cars, and converted to enclosed ends MUDC class "Q" Type cars in 1938 for the 1939-40 NY Worlds Fair "BMT" shuttle services - running back and forth on the then owned and operated IRT Flushing & Astoria EL's from Queens Plaza Jct Station to either Flushing or Astoria line terminals.

In May 1950, they were all modified with IRT ex-Composite Car Motor Trucks that were installed on the A and C cab-control cars only, the B trailer cars retaining their original BMT Peckham trailer trucks,  for Manhattan-Bronx IRT 3rd Ave EL various services until 12-15-1956.  Returned to the BMT for Myrtle Ave. EL service from May 1958 thru October 1959.  And 99% of that Q-Car fleet was scrapped by 1971.

Three Q-Type cars - seen in these videos - were "re-converted" in Coney Island BMT Shops in 1974-75 back to full gate cars, albeit still retaining the "lowered" clerestory roof done between 1960 and 1963 to ALL the Q-Types for Dekalb Avenue subway tunnel clearances to get them thru and to Coney Island Yards for major shop repair work.

Here are some photos of my O-Scale BU Gate Car models, scratchbuilt, of 3 types of BMT EL Gate cars as they appeared in original BRT (Brooklyn Rapid Transit) livery colors back in 1901-4

My 3 "BRT" era Gate cars are a 1200 Series Motor, an 800 Series Center Door Motor, and a 100 series trailer.

regards - Joe F

To Joseph Frank:

Thank you for posting the video. I was right up front most of the time with Bill Wall that day. It was sure great riding those cars. I believe that was the last time the cars ran in fan trip service. I also rode them in 2004 between Brighton Beach Station and Kings Highway for the 100th anniversary of the subway system and when we rode them on the West End Line going to Coney Island and returned on the Brighton Line. I know that when talking to Bill that he and one of his motorman friend's would take a set of the various vintage cars out and ride the system from time to time. I last spoke to him earlier this year. I use to visit him at his office located in the office building in the Westchester Yards in Bronx. Yes I had read about the history of these cars and how they came to be saved. Thanks to Mike Hanna the dean of the subway system for getting many of the old cars saved.

Please contact me at: edmickey@optonline.net and we can talk more on this.

Two of these cars, 844 and 889, are preserved at the Western Railway Museum in California. When the Ninth Avenue El was closed in 1940 a large number of the open platform gate cars were put into storage. When WWII started about 80 of these cars were shipped to California. Most were used on the Shipyard Railway which ran from Oakland to the Kaiser Shipyards in Richmond. The railroad was owned by the U.S. Maritime Commission, but was built and operated by the Key System. Two of the Shipyard Railway cars still exist at WRM. The are now SRy 561 and 563. A picture of them can be seen at http://www.rypn.org/forums/vie...amp;p=224414#p224414

Hello David ( Johnston ) ----

Thanks for the added info, and I am also long well aware of the history of the EL's and their rolling stock, and of these two Manhattan EL Gate cars in the Western Railway Museum.  I have a folder filled with photos of the before, during and final restorations ongoing on these cars thru the past years.

ALL of those cars sent to California (and elsewhere) were the former steam engine-hauled era  trailer cars converted to electric MU Control Motor cars in the 1900-1903 period, of the 6-4-6 Window configuration.  One other car was also running for decades at the Kane and Knox Railroad in I think, Pennsylvania.  I don't know the condition of that car at this time. BERA (Branford) Museum has IRT EL Gate Motor Car 824 in storage for the past 50 years !

Regards - Joe F

Outstanding modeling and pictures as always!!...WOW!!

Alan

Hello Again Alan !

Again - your regularly posted support is appreciated and thanks again.

Here are some random short You Tube Videos of my Layout (URL LINKS to same) provided below that you may enjoy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPEXyv2auYk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Qwy3vr0ka0 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llkmNtZ2LnM 

Also attached are a few "night" scenes on and along my EL System.

And Happy New Year - Alan, and all !

Regards ! - Joe F

Amazing, amazing stuff!  Thanks for sharing. The El structures looks very real. we too are about to add an El to our cityscape and really curious to know more about your El.  Like where it came from (a supplier? scratch built?) and what shade of green color was used for it?  plus I like how real the black and white stripes are at base of each column!  And the platform lighting looks great - where did this come from?  Very cool stuff.  Peter 

Joe,

  Great job, especially the 7th image of your original posting of the ground level shot of the El structure...I went to Catholic high school in the Bronx in the 1970's and you nailed the exact look of how the light filtered through down to the ground. 

  Tom

Anybody interested seeing lots of subway and el cars in action should attend an open house at the NJ Highrailers in Patterson, NJ either on January 17th O Gauge Forum day or February 8th.

Hello Peter (PJB)  --- 

Sorry for the reply delay - very busy lately -- so I will herein try to answer your questions.

The entire EL Structure and its EL Stations and their structure outrigging are built totally scratchbuilt using various PLASTRUCT structural H and I beam shapes....and also wood segments for most track girders, built up to look like plate girders..

ALSO the  EL Station Stairways are all TOTALLY BUILT from scratch,  using variously wood, plastic, cardstock, PLASTRUCT girder shapes, etc.  The Stations were painted Pullman Green to represent a similar 1940's era green hue used on real NYC EL's.  The Station roofs are painted with Oxide Red Primer to replicate the colors on the real roofs.

Here is a complete "construction materials list" that I provided on another OGR "Subways Forum" thread of August 22,  2014 titled "N Y SUBWAY STATION PLATFORM".  My list below is quite extensive and long - I suggest you copy, paste and PRINT it on paper for modeling referrence.  I suggest you ALSO  LOOK UP that thread and my many postings and photos there of the layout and trackwork. Here is the LINK to it:

https://ogrforum.com/t...way-station-platform

I also make use of various types and thicknesses of cardstock and Evergreen and Plastruct sheet plastic material (even index card stock) for certain structural applications, details, and finishing materials !   Here below is a printed listing I created long ago outlining what I basically used to construct my EL structure "steelwork" and also for creating the EL style  track work: EL TRACK started out as ATLAS 2 RAIL Nickel Silver scale Track.  Most of the track in my surface ballasted EL Yards is all hand cut ties and hand laid, spiked rails. 

======================================================

Hello Tom (MNCW)

Thanks also for the compliments and yes, that "EL tracks on street" shadow pattern are one of the most memorable images of being along and under a N Y City EL line structure. (Or Chicago EL for that matter) - especially when the sun is directly overhead, and very strong.

Below are some scenes of "Sunshine and Shadows" under the Bronx IRT White Plains Rd Line EL - some on Westchester Avenue portion and some on Southern Blvd segment, this EL line itself being one of the oldest surviving IRT EL structures built in 1903-04, and opened in 1904 by temporary trains coming off the 3rd Ave EL Jct. to it at E.150th St-Westchester Ave.  I am sure you will enjoy these images ! Below those are some scenes along and under my O Scale NY EL -- for shadow replication as I did it.

WHERE did you grow up in the Bronx, and what years?  I know every area of the Bronx quite well ! Or if you wish you can private email me your reply to me !

PS: for the locations of the real photos, put your cursor over either each photo, or the small thumbnail images at message bottom, and you will see the Location captions.

Regards - Joe F

J. Frank; beautiful photos, video, & layout. I had to look twice because at 1st. I thought they were real & not models. Great craftsmanship.

Joe,

  I went to Mt. St. Michael (1974-1978) on the border of the Bronx & Mt. Vernon, but lived in Yonkers. Wondering how old you are? Judging by the level of detail, I'm guessing 75-85 years old but watch me be way wrong and you are 22! Feel free to respond by email if you don't want everyone to know.

Tom

Hello again SPENCE - and Tom MNCW

Spence -  thanks again for your many nice comments and I am glad you enjoy viewing my photos and work so much. 

Tom - Thanks also - and I DID send you a Private Email  -- so look for it in your email inbox !

Regards guys - Joe F

Wow Joe what great detail, especially the shadows.

I know the area of the prototype photo well, Southern and Westchester Ave. My "home office" is right on Hoe & West Farms, having worked in that area for well over 20 years (and still pass through almost every day)

The shot showing the lattice cross-beam was the backdrop in a picture I did for a small-press comicbook.

---PCJ

Hello Patrick (Railride)

Yes, I also know that area you worked in very well.  I had an Aunt I and my family visited a lot in the 1950's who lived a few blocks down (east along) Westchester Avenue from that Southern Blvd. intersection - along ANOTHER IRT EL that entered and curved upon and over that same Westchester Avenue - The IRT Pelham EL coming up to it from Whitlock Avenue.  She lived along that EL 2 blocks east of, past, the Bronx River drawbridge on the Avenue. 

Here are a few photos from my collection for you to enjoy - YOU know the locations I am sure - some are more recent and some from 50 or more years ago -- the way I remember that entire area back in the 1950's - 1960's period.

NOTE: The TWO photos just above the LAST TWO photos - are taken under my O-Scale EL System !

Place your cursor over each photo to get a location caption popup.

regards - Joe F

Hello Vallieone !

Glad you appreciated and enjoy viewing my modeling work efforts. Here are a few, of my many, layout YOU TUBE videos you may like if you haven't seen them already !

Including one of one of my BRT / BMT Streetcars running in the shadows of my EL.

regards - Joe F

G

Hello again Spence -- I just realized that THIS thread is about my IRT Elevated Open end Platform EL cars  - and thus this attached VIDEO would be in order here. These are Video Camera VHS Tape video clips shot by me back in 1998, 16 years ago ! I digitally installed them to my computer -- there are different scene clips with sound. Hope you enjoy them...as I tried to replicate the prototypes of these cars when in real service on the EL's

Regards !! - Joe F         

If anybody wants to see how realistic Joe's modeling is watch this video   Its about the Third ave el.  Do you recognize anything in the very beginning

Yes,

  Apparently, Joe should be incorporating more steam engines on his layout!

Tom

Hello again Tom --

Already been there - done that long ago - heh !

Now you should have figured that I likely already DID THAT -- see these pictures from back in 2008 of a - heh "steam fantrip"  on my EL with one of my modeled 1878 era INTERBOROUGH (IRT) steam era earliest class of EL cars (the one in red)  ---  !!!

Regards - Joe F

Yes, I see. Uncle, uncle, we are not worthy! 

One thing...I think engine #8209 is clearly in violation of the rule book with a missing headlight!

I would be glad to loan you one of my PRR switchers for your next fantrip. I guess it could have been some hooligan that swiped the headlight most likely from some lesser New York City Catholic High School, such as Cardinal Hayes, oops, I guess the cat is out of the bag now, so to speak.

Tom

Hello Tom

Two of the foaming "loons" on the fantrip stole the headlight in darkness just before the daylight fantrip --and as a H/L was not required for daylite running, the trip went on as planned, heh.  However, on some occasions, some strange fantrip equipment do at times violate the sanctity of the "EL" 3rd rail trackage  but then again, its either a diesel (self powered) or in the case of the scratchbuilt NHRR Boxcab, it has LIRR / NYC Subway type 3rd rail shoes for operation on LIRR 3rd rail trackage - so it can visit the EL - as you see. And of course, my scratchbuilt scale model NYCTA (MTA) 50T Diesel electric Work Train Loco -  of course, can power a fantrip if needed...

regards - Joe F

Joe F:

Which model manufacturer fabricated the subway work train? Or custom made? If so, what was it before. By far one of my favorites.

Bill

Hello Bill (Subway Depot)

Which model work train, or unit,  are you referring to in particular? 

If its the NYCTA-MTA GE 50-T work loco, its scratchbuilt.  MOST of my work cars are totally scratch built - none are MTH "work cars" other than a few MTH IRT R-type and IRT Low-V Car bodies painted in the M-o-W Yellow colors....called "Crew Rider Cars".

One of my "Crew Rider" cars in yellow is my scratchbuilt R-21 type Carbody modified with the side windows covered over.  Its at the rear of the work train in my videos.

I did take some Lionel-based items and completely re-work and modify them to scale improvements and details ---ie:  my NYCTA BLACK Hopper Cars and my NYCTA YELLOW Hopper Cars are such, and a long center cab loco.  However, 90% of the work cars on my system are scratch built and many are replicas of actual real prototype cars from the wooden EL Car Systems to the steel subway car divisions.

Here BELOW is the webpage link to my FLICKR PAGE ALBUM called "O-Scale NYC Transit Work Cars".   There are loads of photos of these cars. 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/...s/72157626205010066/

ALSO below are 3 short videos of one of my work trains running on the EL. Of course, you will see quite more of my very many work cars in the above FLICKR ALBUM.

Regards ! - Joe F

Hi Tom,

Good to have you back posting. Hayesmen myself and Chuck haven't had anyone from the Mount picking on us for quite a while now - missed you!

Joe,

The photos and videos continue to be great - thank you.

Jim