Is 17' x 15' Too Small For 2-Rail Scale

Mike,

No space is too small, and - - - -  No space is ever  big enough for what you want.    

You could build a nice switching layout in that space.    Or represent part of a branchline.

However, if you are not interested in operation,   You could do a single or double track loop.   I would stick with 54 or 60 inch radius so there is some straight track area to put in some switches and run some industrial siding into the corners.

Another option is a twice around folded figure 8.     You put a crossover (diamond) at one end and of the room and fold one of the loops of the 8 inside the other.    It can be scenicked as double track, but gives twice as much running room for one train.    

Jim Policastro did a 2-rail O scale layout in 12' x 6'6" -- continuous run. If switching is of interest, all you need is about 12'x3' for North American; about 8'x2'6" for European. I'm working on a design for a 10'x10' room right now (continuous, 40" radius curves).

It's perfect go for it.

Around the room layout for broad curves and an island interior for industry, town, engine facility etc,

My favorite track plan from years past was an HO design that was In Model Railroader called the Smuteye Central.  I always thought what a killer O scale layout it would make.  So here is what It might look like in your 15x17 space.  Russ

HO layout

O Scale 15x17

Opinion here - go for the biggest radius circle or oval that will fit your space, then double- track it, then pull a branch line off at any radius you want and create your switching yard, maybe on another level.

That's what I did - 14x28 - and the giant 17/64 scale 4-10-2s can actually run double-headed with 80 foot cars.  I still have plans for the yard, but no patience to sit and switch cars.  Best I can do is hold a Margarita and watch.

Mike.

Before I make a suggestion I would need two things.

1. Your age.

2. Your health status.

As good as some layouts plans look, if you had a bad back and can't duck under things or reach areas forget them. If your getting to the stage in your life where you want to make it easy for yourself or this layout is going to be the one for the rest of your life think about around the walls.

If your a fit young bloke and want to set the world on fire and build anything you like without the worry of age or health any plan would suit you.

My layout fits in a 28' X 28' room I could show you what would fit in your space by overlaying your space on my track plan if that helps.

Roo.

Wow wonderful information guys thanks.  I'm OK with ducking under for now. I  plan on building the layout at a higher bench height with custom displays below so I can look at my trains and have easy access to them.  Maybe in 10 years my wife will let me have more of the basement but I am not holding my breath.  My  concern is will a 60" radius allow for operation of larger steam locomotives or modern day locos?  I realize there are limitations and concessions in trying to do 2 rail O in such a small space.   Yes in the last few years my hands have gotten larger and eyesight worse I fully expect the trend to continue.  So maybe O is the way to go over S.  All of my kids will be off to college this fall and time to play in the train room. 

Here's a short and very poor quality video of my small loop,the loop is roughly 14' x 8' with a small cramped engine yard off in one corner,I have two hinged sections now,just inside the room door and one to access the window without ducking under,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTN9VM9m5QI

Thank you for the video it looks awesome!!

its a simple layout,before I got to where I am now,I just had a handful of 2 rail diesels,it was a follow up to my main 1/50 diecast hobby and love for miniature machines,fast forward to now,like was said above I wish I had more room,unfortunately in Ireland big spacious rooms are unheard of,I could have put more sidings or another loop inside the original loop but I wanted to leave room for future 1/50 based scenery/dio,I too would love to see other 2 rail layouts set up in tight spaces

Can I suggest you will soon get tired of ducking under. A lift up section is easily incorporated at the building stage.

cheers

 BobC

gbarnewall posted:

Here's a short and very poor quality video of my small loop,the loop is roughly 14' x 8' with a small cramped engine yard off in one corner,I have two hinged sections now,just inside the room door and one to access the window without ducking under,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTN9VM9m5QI

Nice work.

Bob Comerford posted:

Can I suggest you will soon get tired of ducking under. A lift up section is easily incorporated at the building stage.

cheers

 BobC

This is true. Lift outs or gates are fairly straight forward.

I bet that's a good feeling, Graham. 

 

I have plenty of rolling stock I can convert.

Well, hold off on that until you make some decisions regarding era and objectives - they may be better sold off to finance in part items that you would rather have later.

Operation is not that important to me.  Even in 3 rail I don't think I could do a lot of operating in this small space of 17' x 15' .  However, I would like a few sidings for industry etc.  What I like is realism and scenery.  I enjoy  watching prototypical engines and cars roll by.   Era is most anything 1940's to modern.  One problem I can see is I like passenger trains. 

Not a bad or a too small space; what constraints do you have in the room beyond a doorway?  All clear walls?  No water tank, furnace, electrical panel, laundry stuff, windows, etc.?  Around the perimeter would seem best to get the max radius for those pass cars post 1940 on main lines, but you also need to work with that entry way, and you also need to avoid making anything so deep that you can't reach realistically.  Height is also something to consider and stacking levels round and round with hidden returns might add extra interest and complexity.  Height also might gain you storage space and access ease, too.  If you go with a short line or branch line you can compress somewhat.

Does anyone have any track plans for a space such as this?

 

More information and a balancing of given's and druthers might seem in order before jumping into the water. 

Here's that little 6'6" x 12' layout I built that Matt mentioned.

...and an old fuzzy video of it:

Jim

Your space is more than adequate. I work in 11' x 17 ' and never felt I had a small space...get busy and enjoy the 2 Rail experience. Here's a photo of my mainline at 50" radius with a 46" radius runaround siding next to it.

Bob

Dear Mike,

First of all, welcome to 2 Rail O scale !!!!

I thought you might see what a layout 12'x 18' can produce in 2 Rail O scale.

When I designed this layout I had as Marty pointed out my" Givens and Druthers".

Givens- At 60 years of age I wanted to use as much off the shelf items as possible.

Prepping the room with proper lighting and other amenities before rather than after layout built.

No more hand laid track or measuring for grades-Atlas track and Woodland Scenics, Mianne benchwork.

Outside main westbound loop to run my trains and act as a" moving interchange track" as a portal to the outside world.

Inside eastbound main track to switch the inbound cars in the 6 industries and set off the outbound cars to the moving westbound moving interchange track.

Trains to peddler freight length- 6-9 cars. Locos 2 axle diesels or 2-8-0. Passenger- 2 cars or RDC /gas electric.

Detail, detail, detail the layout. That is what O scale is all about. O scale size trees, not the mamby- pamby commercial made ones- go outside and look what God has made!!

No turntables or yards-takes up lots of space- starts out as a nice idea until they are populated by locos that don't run and freight cars collecting dust-dust is not weathering !!!- and of course-spiders!!

Druthers- Radius constrains to Atlas 49.5", 45" radius.Turnout-hand thrown-Atlas #5's

I wanted to pop up's in the layout so I put down the good old Harbor Freight anti-fatigue mats.

Welcome to 2 Rail Oscale- You have received some excellent advise from some of the best layout builders on this Forum!! Take heed!!

Try to attend a O scale only show like Chicago at St.Patty's Day weekend since you live in Sheboygan,WI.

John P.Dunn Sr. Scale2Rail Promotions

                            Strasburg Show- 04/22/2017

My space is about 19' x 21, I have a two level layout, 2 track mainline, 56" minimum radius,
I run cab-forwards and any kind of diesels, E7s are my biggest, come on-15' x 17' in a great
space for O scale, use your imagination my friend! You can do it! ncng

John, nice going! That up and over figure 8 is something I've done in N. Makes the run more interesting, I think. Plus you've taken advantage of Atlas' various radii track pieces.

Dan Weinhold (Yep, I'm looking forward to April in Strasburg.)

gbarnewall posted:

Here's a short and very poor quality video of my small loop,the loop is roughly 14' x 8' with a small cramped engine yard off in one corner,I have two hinged sections now,just inside the room door and one to access the window without ducking under,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTN9VM9m5QI

I just watched your video & would like to know more about the massive, yellow, mobile crane at the 20-second mark on the video. Is it a 1:50 scale model of a Liebherr LTM####?

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan

Here is a video of my first O scale layout that measured 14' X 16'. I removed the duck under and the track about six years ago when I planned to start another layout. No progress on the new layout as of today.  Jim.

While my space is a little larger I wanted to note that my minimum mainline radius is 56" and 60" and I can run some large engines on it.

Also, Bob, John, ITRRFAN and others, it is great to see you guys making your spaces work so nicely.

Had some fun just playing around.  15x17 looks to be a good size.  Used Atlas 54 inch radius for the curves.  Russ

ChiloquinRuss posted:

Had some fun just playing around.  15x17 looks to be a good size.  Used Atlas 54 inch radius for the curves.  Russ

Hello ChiloquinRuss

I LIKE that track plan of yours as probably in few years, we may get lucky to buy a home (low-cost-home from HUD) and would use such a great plan of yours    I have box of Atlas "O" O99 curves (45.5 inch radius) still sitting in the box not use since 2012 because we live in small apt.  How many Atlas 40" straights are needed for this plan ?

"When people sin, they earn what sin pays - death. But God gives his people a free gift of - eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." Romans 6:23 ERV (Easy to Read version)

Tiffany

Thank you Russ.  That provides a nice perspective of what can be done.

I like john's givens and druthers.    I do disagree that yards especially and engine terminals take up space and are used as parking places.    if you are interested in operations, a yard can be a big part of it, and definitely not a storage lot.    For example, on my layout I have a 5 track yard that can hold about 60-70 cars.   My operations include through freights that come from some staging and continue to staging.   They drop off and pickup cars at the yard.   These are cars going to or from industries modeled on the layout.   Then local freights originate at the yard, getting engines from the engine terminal and deliver and pickup cars from the local industries.    In a normal operating session of about 3 hours, every car in the yard is changed.    

So yards and engine houses may certainly have a use on an operating layout.    

Another very important consideration in my opinion in some form of connection to the rest of the world.    This can be a staging track, hidden or not, that holds a train.   Or it can be a track designated as an interchange with another RR that just holds a string of cars.      Having an outside connection gives your operation a purpose and provides a place to send any kind of car.    And if you have two of them, you can send car types not used on the layout, from one to the other justifiably.

"How many Atlas 40" straights are needed for this plan ?"  I've added a passing siding that can be used for a runaround for the peninsula and the industrial area.  Russ

Russ, great job on the track plan but I just want to mention that the prices you show are out of date. For instance, the 7056 40" flex track now lists for $18.25 with a street price of around $17 and #5 turnout lists for $91.95 with a street price of around $87. 

Atlas O off the Internet TODAY! Russ

Russ, that's an old website.  To my knowledge JD Trains is no longer in business. I am not trying to be a jerk. I just want anyone reading this thread to have accurate information. Straight from the Atlas O website it says the retail for a 40" piece of flex is $18.25. Please let me know if you know of a place that actually sells it for $13. I will buy a bunch of it right now. 

From the Atlas O website:

Hi Phil,

Have you ever considered Micro Engineering track?  The quality is nice and it is a little less $  They have different code rail available in O scale.

http://microengineering.com/products_ft.htm

Mike

Mike, yes I have considered it. When I was in a 2 rail club I heard bad things about the ME track but I have decided that I like it. It is a little cheaper than Atlas but I am told it is harder to bend. I have some ME track and I am using it as long straights. I hope to build a layout someday and I will use both ME and Atlas track. 

I didn't mean to get off topic here. This thread is about if a 2 rail layout will fit in a 15' x 17' space and not about the best kind of track. I just wanted to point out that the prices Russ quoted were old and out of date. Unfortunately, Atlas track prices have risen for both 3 and 2 rail track. 

Hudson said:
"Mike, yes I have considered it. When I was in a 2 rail club I heard bad things about the ME track but I have decided that I like it. It is a little cheaper than Atlas but I am told it is harder to bend. "

I dimly remember that ME weathered track is the culprit, not the unweathered track. At any rate, it's more fragile to bend.

My new avatar: my 2-year-old great grandson introduced to Lionel trains at Christmas. In love, he was. I let him play with my old, unbreakable stuff. Got to get them young

Phil, no problem.  I did some more research and you are quite right about the severe jump in Atlas pricing.  Hobbylinc had the best.  Anyhow the original question was more about the QUANTITY of parts and not the pricing.  So that part of the chart still applied.  Anyhow here is the Hobbylinc chart.  Russ

Just as a sidebar if you play with the flex and make your own curves it's cheaper than buying the pre-made curve sections.

Second sidebar, the ME weathered rail is awful.  Also the switches are very fragile at the throw-bar and frog end of the points.  Atlas are very well built and will take heavy usage with the bigger diecast steamers.  Russ

I am about to start building my 2nd 2R layout and it will be a mere 12 x 14. I had to downsize to make room for my other hobby in the other end of the room. It will be smaller than I would like but anything is better than nothing. I started to switch to HO but I would rather have a little bit of O scale than any other scale.

It all depends on what you want. 17x15 is the equivalent of 9.3x8.3 in HO for example. If you want a continuous run then you don't have many options. JDunn has really maximized his space for continuous run.  What if you don't want pop-ups or broad stretches that you can't reach across? Then an around the room is your option which pretty much dictates the track plan.

Your mileage may vary, but I have come to a point that it is more important for me to get the type of railroad that I want and not just take whatever I can get to get big trains running. If I have to drop to S scale or HO to get what I want then so be it. You may be fine with that though. Is it too small of a space? That all depends on what you want to do. If you really like yard or passenger operations you probably wouldn't have enough room. If you like the layouts posted above then you are probably in good shape.

Good luck