Is Anyone Using DCC to Control Their 3-Rail Trains?

Hello Bill,

 

I'm glad you asked that question.  I've posed it in past and gotten two replies.  I think there are more prople out there trying dcc with 3 rail than that.

 

I play around with it because it is easy to build a dcc decoder for O gauge with a thru hole component PCB (not miniature surface mount parts).  And for sounds all that i really want or need is horn/bell/prime mover or whistle/bell/chuff.  Both are simple to do (i know, easy for me to say, but i designed alot of stuff for RIght of Way and TAS).

 

So lets see who has really tried dcc and what they think.

 

Regards,

 

Lou N

 

 

Are there any commercially available DCC decoders that will handle the current required by an O gauge loco? They can pull as much as 2-4 amps.

Try North Coast Engineering D408 decoder.  The owner of North Coast is also a member of this forum.  And its all made in the USA.  Just Google NCEDCC.

 

Regards,

 

Lou N

 

As Lou stated .... NCE. They have even bigger ones.

 

(NCE is a great company to deal with .... I'm a long time customer with HO)

Good question if you are looking to install a decoder yourself, but with MTH PS-3 locos, there's already a DCC decoder on board, making it easier to use DCC. In my case, I am currently involved in two module clubs that use DCC, one HO and one in On30. Naturally, they each use different brands of DCC (Digitrax & Lenz), so I already have the DCC systems. Recently, I have become associated with a third club that is active in 3-rail O using DCS and TMCC and also Large Scale running DC, so I feel like the last thing I need is to invest in yet another digital model train control system. I figured surely there were others in a similar situation, so I posed the question. From the limited responses, I would guess that there aren't a whole lot of folks running both DCC and 3-rail O, but at least there are some.

 

I plan to give DCC a try, because I have an MTH RailKing Alco RS1 loco on order, but in the meantime, I purchased one of the Lionel LionChief+ 2-8-2 locos, which will run in conjunction with almost any digitally controlled layout, whether DCS, TMCC, or DCC. So far, I am very impressed with this little loco, and even though it is not fully scale, it performs beautifully! At the very least, I am hoping to put off having to buy a new digital control system for a while, anyway.

 

Thanks for the input,

Bill in FtL

I am using DCC on 3 rail.  Some of the large scale decoders will handle the O gauge locomotives.  Some of the Digitrax decoders will handle 1.5 amps.  That should work with the O gauge locomotives.

Like you, I have been planning on getting a DCC system so supplement DCS and TMCC. I've also even been considering DCC as an upgrade for my conventional locomotives.

 

Some of the new PS3 Rail King engines don't have the DCC/DCS switch installed -- they're hard-coded for DCS for simplicity. There's a thread on making the modification to add the switch which is pretty simple.

ESU makes LokSound XL for higher amp rating. QSI makes Titan Magnum. Both have outstanding motor control and sound with QSI being my favorite. Both can also control a fan driven smoke unit. TCS has a G8 non-sound decoder but they are working on a larger WowSound decoder. I'm personally waiting on this one for a couple of my 2 rail models.

I run DCC on my MTH 3 rail I use a MRC  prodigy-pro-elite-10a- I can run two trains at the same time

This is very interesting; i knew there had to be folks using dcc in 3 rail.

 

i am thinking about making a sound adder board for the nce decoders.

maybe just something simple like horn/bell or whistle /bell.

 

Regards,

 

Lou N

I'm curious as to why those who are using DCC instead of TMCC or DCS are doing so? Are their reasons like mine, they already had the DCC system and simply didn't want to invest additional funds in another digital system? Or are there other reasons that I'm not aware of yet?

 

My experience with DCC leads me to believe that it is a little less "mysterious" or "quirky" than the other digital systems I read about on this forum. admittedly, that opinion may change as I learn more about DCS and TMCC - time will tell.

 

Bill in FtL

---

 

I rather enjoy building my own decoders and simple sound boards.  That's my reason. I guess I am just a habitual experimenter.

 

Lou N

Lou,

 

What chips are you using in your decoders and sound boards?

 

I would like to build a DCC decoder using an arduino.

 

I have a friend who uses DCC on his 3-rail Western Maryland Layout.    He does probably because his layout is basically scale and he is in our round robin group that is mostly HO with a few N scale and me, 2-rail O.    All the layouts are "operating" layouts with some kind of car routing system and use anywhere from 6 to 20 people to operate.    All of these 2 rail layouts use one of the DCC systems, NCE, Lenz, EasyDCC, or Digitrax.    All operate well and the guys have a lot of experience with the systems.   They can help a newcomer with questions.   So basically his experience in model railroading is with DCC rather than the 3 rail systems.

 

As for Decoders, I have installed about 40 of them in O scale locos.   They are rock solid.   I have never had one fail that was installed properly.   the only bad thing I had happen was I left a lighting wire bare when testing a chassis and burned out that function.   It was totally my fault.   It was also a minor problem since the decoder has 8 other functions and I was able to program one of the general ones for that headlight.   they are rated at 4 amps continuous and 10 amps stall.   Most of the time I can fit them in the boiler of a steamer above the weight and not have to wire them from the tender.

I use microCHIP processors and an assortment of sound IC's from the orient.  I took some time before answering because I knew the microchip guys had an appointment here with me and I could ask some questions.

 

If you are already skilled in microchip you might want to look at chipKITT which is an arduino board with a microchip processor instead of Atmel. 

 

I ordred an arduino UNO and MICRO just to see what is involved.

 

For sounds, do you have a sound editor like Sound Forge?

Lou N

Lou,

 

Are you programming in C or assembly?

 

I do not have a sound editor.  Do you know of a good open source one?

 

 

Frank,

 

Here are some answers; i wanted to do my homework first.  The open source sound editor is called Audacity; frequently mentioned in the LAYOUT SOUND Yahoo Group.  ALso I have acquired an Arduino micro and UNO, just to see what i can do with them.


Additionally, the microCHIP FAE's were in last week and told me that there is a microCHIP equivalent of the Arduino.  It is called chipKITT and is by Digilence.  I got one of those also.

 

The Arrow FAE showed me an arduino shield that is a motor driver; it is from ST Micro.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regards,

 

Lou N

I am currently not using DCC with 3 rail trains (or anything else), but I am interested in DCC. I have DCS and Legacy, but all the possibilities available with DCC sound interesting. I would like to learn more about it. Seems like a good way to that would be to get a DCC system. I have a few 3 rail MTH PS3 engines that I believe are DCC capable. Probably won't be making my own decoders anytime soon like some of you are though.

 

I am definitely new to DCC and don't know a lot about it. I was looking at and thinking about the NCE DCC system before finding this thread. Something about the NCE system that keeps me looking at it. And now, from Lou N's post above about their O gauge decoders and the owner being a forum member, I may have just been convinced that is the system to get.

 

Any suggestions or advice anyone has would be appreciated.

 

One question I do have if one was using the NCE DCC system, what would be a good power supply for use with 3 rail O gauge trains? I am currently using PH-180's with my Legacy & DCS. NCE recommends a Brutus 18VAC 10amp for O gauge, same as the PH-180's. What is the difference between them?

I just checked the specs on the PH-180 and the Brutus 18VAD 10amp power supply.  They look the same.  The connectors on the output might be different.

 

Check the owners manual for your MTH PS3 engines.  It should tell you if they are DCC compatible.  If they are, there might be a CONV - DCC switch on the bottom.  If you do not have the switch, there is a jumper wire in side the engine that will need to be cut.  You can add a switch so you can change between DCS and DCC.  Check with MTH Service for more information on the jumper wire.

 

I have cut the jumper wire and added a switch on my MTH PS3.

 

Thanks. I didn't see a difference in specs either, wiring differences yes. I have adapter plugs for the PH-180's to go to either 2 plain wires or banana plugs for a TIU. I will probably contact NCE before I decide on what I want to do and it will probably be a while before I do anything with it. My DCS and Legacy systems with a couple of PH-180's (20 amps) were still a couple hundred less than the NCE DCC system with one of the 10 amp recommended power supplies. I already have some PSX-AC's, but I haven't gotten into the circuit breakers and other accessories needed (if any) for DCC yet. Some saving up before purchase will be required here.

 

I think the MTH Premier engines still have the DCS/DCC switch and the RailKing line has gone to the internal jumpers to switch over. I will have to look at mine and see what I have. Some are still packed away from moving a while back and I don't have room for them all on the current layout I have. I have a couple of early PS3 engines and I have almost forgotten what they look like they have been packed so long.

 

I looked into DCC a little when I returned to the hobby a few years ago, but haven't paid much attention to it since. That is until I started reading about it again recently, not sure what got me started ton that again. Anyway DCC looks very fiddly and I like to fiddle, so the interest is mounting.

 

I think everything I have read so far has been for HO or N scale. Doesn't seem to be much out there on 3 rail O gauge and DCC, and very little 2 rail large scale and 2 rail O gauge. I have only been looking at NCE, that is the one I liked from a few years ago. Back then I don't think any of the DCC manufacturers had anything on O gauge.

I hope this gains some momentum.  

 

Lionel S gauge Legacy engines are DCC enabled, why can't the offer that for their O gauge offerings.

Since MTH is already doing it, and Lionel now has it in their Legacy electronics for S gauge, they just might start doing it in O gauge? You never know?

 

Personally, I think it would be a wise choice for them to keep up with MTH. Might even be cheaper for them to have only one set of Legacy boards that do it all, like the MTH PS3 boards, than to have two different sets? 

I agree it would be nice if Lionel did start adding multiple control support.  However, given the fact that MTH currently builds for both the 2-Rail O Scale market as well as 3-Rail, where Lionel does not, adds some credence to MTH's desire to support DCC and other control platforms on the same board.  Especially since DCC seems to be strongly embraced in the 2-Rail world.

 

I realize that the you are working with 3-Rail DCC and not 2-Rail DCC but I think that this is currently still too much of a niche market for Lionel to put any incentive into building combined DCC support into their control boards.  However, if one board will work for both S and O scales, then it would be a no-brainer for Lionel to support DCC in their O scale offerings as well.  The next step is to get Lionel to start offering 2-Rail equipment as MTH has done.  They seem to be dipping their toes in the 2-Rail scale water with their latest 86' high cube boxcars as they come equipped with scale Kadee compatible coupler drafter gear boxes and mounting support.  Next is to get them to offer an option for scale wheels too .

 

Scott K.

Austin, TX

 

Has anyone converted a Lionel open frame AC motor to run on DCC? Is it possible? Would a bridge rectifier need to installed first, to have the motor run on DC, then install a decoder?

 

Jack

The issue might be finding a DCC decoder capable of the current draw a universal motor might require, even if converted to DC.  Which will have to be done.  G

NCE does have a 8 amp decoder with a 30 Amp stall but I'm not sure if that is enough for an open motor application. I would start there but it is pricey at (I think) $109.

Scott, I really like what you are saying here and I wish Lionel would offer DCC compatibility and insulated scale wheels like MTH does. The reason is when MTH does offer a -2 steam (and some diesel) locomotives if one doesn't pre-order it or doesn't look for it as soon as they are shipped it can be extremely hard to find later on. I guess the reason is the low production numbers and the fact that very seldom folks turn around to sell them. However, look how many years it took just for Lionel to offer Kadee mounting pads. I don't think I will live long enough to see the day that Lionel offers 2 rail with all the bells and whistles.

8amps is what Lionel uses.  So that would work.  G

Here is some information from the Digitrax website.

 

http://www.digitrax.com/tsd/KB587/ac-motor-operation/

 

Two other approaches have been suggested in the Digitrax Big Book of DCC (available again at Amazon.com), pictured below: