Is CAB1 really needed?

When TMCC came out, Lionel DID offer different CRYSTALS to change Frequencies. I know this for a fact as we had to change Crystals in our CAB1 for our Modular Layout at a Train Show!

FREDSTRAINS

I run all my Electric RR stuff with the Legacy system.  I've never needed a CAB1 or BASE1 for any of them.

The ONLY reason you "need" a CAB1 is for the original PowerMaster, it receives commands directly from the CAB1.  The Legacy PowerMaster Bridge was created to solve that single issue under Legacy.

Forget about the CAB1/BASE1, you don't need them.

get and use the legacy.  if more then one are in use because of multiple layouts. you can change the channel on a legacy much easier then the cab1. 

More cowbell! That was one of my favorites.

Legacy will run everything.

Correct me if I'm wrong John, but doesn't one of the optional modes work specifically/better for the ERR speed steps?

I believe that the REL100 mode on Legacy really works the same as the relative (and only) mode that the CAB1 offers.  The REL100 mode gives you the throttle graph and perhaps a couple of the other TMCC specific features of the CAB2.

Thank you!

Thank you John for the information. Now all I need is someone to cough up a Legacy base and handheld. I think I know a member who has one.

Are there any problems with the TPC and TIU being used together?

Cow bell? That is my post-war bell unit!

What I did to address the CAB1 channel conflict was to use a Legacy system but most of our club users were very adverse, and frankly still are, to using the Legacy CAB2. When the CAB1L came out I jumped on it and now I can run a different channel that other layouts with the users having the comfort of using a CAB1 in the CAB1L. My suggestion would be to do this since I have had no issues when I did this for my club layouts.

Question, which end would this go in? the base or the handheld? Also these crystals do not have very much of a spread.

You will need one for each base and handheld that you want to use together.

If you have the TIU, you really don't need the TPC.  You can vary the track voltage with the TIU on the two variable channels.

Stone Rhino our club has had this problem.  Check with the other clubs about duplicate engine numbers.  The train/track 1-9 limited numbers cause the most problems.  A Fix for your TPC is to assign it and ENGINE number between 2 and 98 - a much bigger selection then calling it a track/train.  Bruce

We have tried it both ways and seem to be happy with the Track number of zero.

The TIU will not be 100% available as it will only be there for the use by one member who's collection is majority MTH. This may change of course.

We managed to get the layout running last night at 11PM after last minute track adjustments. Electricity was applied and the TIU behaved flawlessly even with chopped sine power being fed through it.

Finally we had a considered donation of a ZW-<something> that uses all 4 of the powerhouse 180 bricks versus using the TPC 400's. This would be considerably less expensive (free) than using a Z-4000.

Whether to use a Cab1 or not should be made with the consensus of the club members. Many of our club like Jeff's don't use Legacy and are more comfortable with a Cab1. Getting some Cab1Ls is an option but then you are spending more bucks. We just connect the TMCC base to the Legacy Base and folks can use what they want to run trains.

As for replacing a Z4000 with a ZW-C we had one and got rid of it. It was always problematic especially when trying to use it like a TPC to vary track voltage. Its one thing to try different approaches on your home layout, another when you have 30 plus folks with different levels of technical expertise.

Pete

How do you change frequency, or whatever it is, on the CAB1L?

It's in the manual, it's a simple process.

1. Press the button on the side of the Base-1L once. The Base’s green LED will blink up to
nine times, which indicates the current channel number. After a pause the blink pattern
repeats. It will do this for a couple of minutes, and then return to normal operating mode
unless the button is pressed again.
2. While the Base-1L is blinking its channel number, pressing the button a second time
changes the current radio channel to the next higher frequency. Keep pressing the button
until the desired radio channel is reached, as indicated by the blink pattern.

1. Remove the sliding cover over the SET key at the bottom front of the CAB-1L.
2. Hold down the SET key and press a number key (1 - 9) to pick the radio channel to transmit on.
3. The speaker will beep to give feedback when the channel is configured, either one beep if a base
responds, or three beeps if no base responds. The new channel number will be saved.

trainman9, thank you. I will be ordering a pair as it is far cheaper at the moment to get a pair of crystals over a whole legacy set at the present time.

Someone also mentioned swapping the one in the handle to one in the base. I am unsure if anyone has attempted this or what the inversion of frequency would do. Ill have to test this.

It seems the crystal pair I purchased is not communicating with each other. The cab1 base does not acknowledge any kind of signal.

The posts from trainman9 have been removed for some reason.

Anyhow, the crystals only have a 100KHz spread and not the 445KHz like the original.

The crystals must be 455khz apart, so I suspect that trainman9 steered you to incompatible crystals.  Perhaps that's why his posts are missing, he is hiding.

Here's a great detailed explanation of the TMCC system, including why the crystals are spaced 455khz apart.

Dale Manquen's TrainFacts (Lionel TMCC)

The crystals listed were Lionel parts. They should work.

There you go, the difference between 26.540 mhz and 26.8 mhz is not 455khz, so that set of crystals won't work.  I don't know what those stock numbers are, they're not Lionel numbers.

Crystals can be a number of types, so just because they have a specified frequency, that doesn't mean they'll work in any application that requires that frequency.

Thank all! At least I know I'm not crazy. Despite the oops, your information was very helpful trainman9 and Brassuer took the higher crystal back and is swapping for a 27.095MHz

So is this is why Trainman is going after GRJ. Because he proved you wrong?  

Regardless, information provided was at least useful in getting me pointed in the right direction. Also its good to know that CAB1L also can be changed easier. We all have our lapse of judgement and I fault no one.

Very true, crystals are made and labeled for the circuitry they accompany - eg. 4 crystals labeled with the same frequency may be for 4 different types of equipment with 4 different intermediate frequencies(IF's).

Well it seems that modifications to cab1 are impossible. After several out of band communiques lionel support, the project is abandoned on getting cab1 to a different channel.

Thanks to all who have given input and insight. It has been a great help!

Stone Rhino,

   In answer to your original question, no the Cab1 is not really needed, I have never owned one and run the Legacy with my DCS.

PCRR/Dave