Is it time?

Right. You are definitely "over-simplifing" the process, especially on diesel models. 

The intent of my previous post was not to "convert the world to Kadees", nor was it to obsolete the use of the "claw". My intent was to have the principal manufacturers consider evolutionary changes in their premium products that would improve the looks and also the fidelity to scale. This would be a natural evolution to the improvements that they have already made in scale fidelity for what we call 3RS. Ideally, a design change could accommodate those who want to continue the use of the lobster claw, and those who desire something more prototypically sized.....

I believe it was Archimedes who said, "Give me a fulcrum large enough and I will move the world." The same concept applies here in dollar cost terms. Make it profitable and they will appear faster than dandelions in the Spring.

Nice thought.  Stuff of dreams, though.

Besides, for 70 years I've accepted enjoyed the 'lobster claws'....ever since my first Lionel set came equipped  that way from....Santa Claus! 

So, what about that center third rail?  Hmmmmm???  Do 'scale couplers' trump that conundrum??  In fact, that ol' center rail keeps getting into the picture when you're admiring those center-mounted scale couplers!!  Hrumph!!!   ()

Why not ditch both problems...go to O2R???

Re Lionel's tubular track....  Yep, as Jerry said....Lionel ain't done with tubular track just yet.  That said, my bet is that the next step for this icon of the past will be to turn tubular track production over to Lionel Corporation Tinplate (MTH).  

"It's only logical!' 

Meanwhile, back at the ranch....

KD

Exclusion, arrogance both nasty words. And there is hypocritical to add now.

Look what it gets me when I unwittingly let them apply to myself.

And now I apologize gnnpnut for being lax in finding a more elegant, much less personal way to get my point across.

Don't let one idiotic response(a mistake) chase you off the track.

 I don't support exclusion, I rally around inclusion, and diversity. It is my defense and if ..when I step off base in my passion, please call me on it.

 The personal nature of other posts in this thread admittedly have me not pulling punches yet, but I will try to keep it on the arm.

I'm not trolling the scale sections looking for full blown arguments. I snidely passed that opportunity already if you review closely. 

 On occasion this topic is balanced and a good one.

It is a topic that affects the whole site.

 This one IMO was doomed by its title, and continued pursuit of exclusion over realistic compromise to achieve a long term goal. No matter where it appeares those excluded are likely to voice themselves with passion.

 Martins definition applies, but as usual (snark) clarification of context might need work because not all trolls are the same. 

I'm home most of the time, I read a lot. Books and from the forum. The whole forum.

 The scale sections offer spectacular modeling. And just because I don't comment much or build 100% scale doesn't mean I'm not here. I have an interest in scale as valid as the next persons.

 I do not even throw "likes" at the scale photos unless they are truly impressive works, because 2 or 3rs sort of demands that respect.

 I really like to see that all the devotion, but its not just as a "oh that's nice" Looky-Lou. I seriously pursued diorama building, and competed against adults as a kid.

I look at the big picture, then find all those little mistakes that teach me as well. 

  So if you think I "just don't understand scale" think again.

Its just not my focus with trains. But I appreciate what you do greatly.

Detail minded? E.G. I used to paint speedometer detail when modeling automobiles. How often does that ever get seen?

 As far as banter goes, scale oriented talk is critical by nature. Not to excuse my own actions, but I don't get why the outright bashing of others for personal choices is so prevalent in the scale sects.

 It is present in the toy world too, but not to the same degree IMO.

  I've heard some "calm down" things when an exuberant scale suggestion is made(not nice). But can't remember anyone in "toy land" every suggesting the scale folk give up trying to make or use a better product. I don't think I implied it either.

And in close I admit to actually wondering if trolling by post, wasn't a part of the scale "click's" or a clubs holiday fun from the moment I read the title.

Now back on the topic.

 I saw no comment on the "Seafood Crate".

Am I to read this silence as a reply? Is it an unacceptable compromise to a slow change?

Or did I hit a solution that would end "the game"?

(Hold your arms)

Production and use of the claw must cease immediately, Hiel KD?    

i think the big issue here is that most people on the forum think 2 railers want to eliminate all 3 railers. i think what you are missing if Lionel MTH or whoever comes out with a scale sized car even tho its factory equipped with the "big boy sized" coupler they should make it easily converted to a KD style coupler. if they want additional sales to people who want scale couplers they should make it easy for them to adapt that coupler PERIOD. that doesn't affect your 3 rail piece at all, so if you want the large coupler thats what is factory installed. what is the problem with that?????? it just makes good economic sense for the manufacturer!  

While I was composing. Others have correctly pointed out the cause of the firestorm.

..and better ideas? 

I'm 23, there goes that theory....

They're already doing this, though, so I'm still not sure why this discussion is occurring. 

The manufacturers are already adding Kadee compatible mounts to their scale rolling stock. The current Lionel catalog has a few that already have this feature and the current MTH catalog lists a major portion of their rolling stock as having Kadee compatible mounts. It's all in the features listings for the products.

It has been stated that Weaver has done this for years so that leaves Atlas. I haven't looked at their latest catalog, but the others are heading in that direction so I would imagine they will not be far behind. I'm sure they know what the competition is up to.

If you haven't looked at a current Lionel or MTH catalog, take a look and see for yourselves. If you don't have a print copy of the catalogs, they are available online at the manufacturers websites.

So it IS time, and it is almost done!  If I were you guys, I would put a guard dog on my center rail.  Somebody is bound to come up with an idea to make it optional.  Then what would set you apart?

Isn't MTH already doing an option on that point, with some models as well.

And I thought Weaver had offered some as both for us.

 The wheel sets would be a goal many more in the 3 rail world could live with right now, like today. Modern controls have taken care of a huge portion of that concern. Locos alone would take care of the job enough to get by on with tubular anti-derail, it jut wouldn't be ideal overall.   

Only those using an isolated rail section as an electronic control would be affected by it, myself included, but it would be a huge difference for the two rail crowd to get isolated wheels.... ooops... forgot about the flanges, sorry... I'm tryin' . 

I'm ordering a pair of these, one for each end of the layout. I'm not taking any chances with the sacred 3rd rail.

I looked through the MTH 2015 v2 catalog last night. ALL Premier engines, both steam and diesel, list Kadee coupler mounting as a feature. They are a lot further along on this than I had thought.

I believe I posted that information, quite some time earlier in this thread, i.e. MTH has been offering "Kadee compatible" freight cars and locomotive models for some years now.

Must have missed the locomotive part, I saw the freight cars mentioned, but not engines?

And I was also surprised to find ALL Premier engines listed having that feature, but not all Premier rolling stock. Would have figured that to be the other way around?  

The first MTH Premier 2-rail locomotive that I bought in 2007 had the provisions for mounting Kadee couplers. To the extent I remember a discussion on these forums from a few years ago, MTH Premier freight cars with newer tooling have pads with holes / bosses for mounting Kadee couplers. Also if MTH updates the tooling for an older Premier car, they add pads for mounting Kadee couplers.

These are just my opinion,

Thanks,

Naveen Rajan