Is the Hobby Dying?

I agree the hobby is not dying at least not at York.

The hobby is not dying, it is just changing.

@eddie g posted:

I agree the hobby is not dying at least not at York.

I agree Eddie. York was awesome!

@Former Member posted:

The hobby is not dying, it is just changing.

I completely agree. It’s evolved for sure, and I think is on the upswing again.

The model railroading hobby in general is at its best, O gauge ( Scale models) on the other hand is becoming very stressful, esp for newcomers. Command control has not been available for 3 years, The Used market is overpriced somewhat and built to order making it more of a collector's hobby now, making models even rarer once they are sold out. I get why they do BTO but it's a turn-off for newcomers and people in the age group between 14-30. I got back into the hobby early this year and so far it's been okay but it sucks that certain models I want are a lot harder to find than it was a decade ago. But I do see it getting better in the long run.

As for kids, O Gauge is in a very good spot and Lionel has a large diverse selection of starter sets and they can be controlled with phones.

Hopefully, I can go to York for the first time in April next year.

I agree with all points above. 👍

Whether it is or is not dying, I really couldn’t care less. I have more things than I will ever use, no need to buy anything new. If it is dying, it will not affect my enjoyment or the time I spend on it. If the hobby attracts younger folks great. We all can’t start out with top of the line everything. It is like riding on a passenger train, the journey isn’t as important as the destination. That is the way I look at it.

Model railroading is definitely not dying. Chris (RBP Trains on Youtube) did a fantastic video recently that makes that clear, at least, in his opinion. Youtube, other social media, and this forum are definitely showing an increase in the number of folks getting into the model railroading hobby. It's not just O-Scale/O-Gauge trains, but all other scales as well. Plus, while some of the local hobby shops are closing, we still have Trainworld, Trainz.com, Mr. Muffin's Trains, and other shops that do online orders.

@Chris3671 posted:

The model railroading hobby in general is at its best, O gauge ( Scale models) on the other hand is becoming very stressful, esp for newcomers. Command control has not been available for 3 years, The Used market is overpriced somewhat and built to order making it more of a collector's hobby now, making models even rarer once they are sold out. I get why they do BTO but it's a turn-off for newcomers and people in the age group between 14-30. I got back into the hobby early this year and so far it's been okay but it sucks that certain models I want are a lot harder to find than it was a decade ago. But I do see it getting better in the long run.

As for kids, O Gauge is in a very good spot and Lionel has a large diverse selection of starter sets and they can be controlled with phones.

Hopefully, I can go to York for the first time in April next year.

I agree with you. I'm a 2-rail O scaler and use DCC for command control. I would be very frustrated if I were still in hi-rail at the lack of availability of command control systems. I know Lionel was in a bind with not having the chips or whatever it was to make the Legacy remote anymore, but the gap between that and the release of the Base 3 is unfortunate, as it leaves newcomers to the scale in a bind.

From a business standpoint, BTO makes perfect sense. But you're right, it can make it difficult for new modelers, especially younger ones with less disposable income, to jump in. Train shows are great for this reason. While you might not find the latest and greatest, you can find excellent deals and bargains on older models. As a 2-rail steam era modeler, almost everything I'm looking for is long out of production, but I've had good luck at shows (such as Strasburg and York) and eBay and have been able to hunt down just about every locomotive on my wish list.

I hope you can make York next year too. You won't be disappointed!

@Chris3671 posted:

The model railroading hobby in general is at its best, O gauge ( Scale models) on the other hand is becoming very stressful, esp for newcomers. Command control has not been available for 3 years, The Used market is overpriced somewhat and built to order making it more of a collector's hobby now, making models even rarer once they are sold out. I get why they do BTO but it's a turn-off for newcomers and people in the age group between 14-30. I got back into the hobby early this year and so far it's been okay but it sucks that certain models I want are a lot harder to find than it was a decade ago. But I do see it getting better in the long run.

@Dylan the Train Man posted:

Model railroading is definitely not dying. Chris (RBP Trains on Youtube) did a fantastic video recently that makes that clear, at least, in his opinion. Youtube, other social media, and this forum are definitely showing an increase in the number of folks getting into the model railroading hobby. It's not just O-Scale/O-Gauge trains, but all other scales as well. Plus, while some of the local hobby shops are closing, we still have Trainworld, Trainz.com, Mr. Muffin's Trains, and other shops that do online orders.

Excellent points, Dylan. As for hobby shops, sometimes the reason for closing isn't lack of success, it more has to do with an owner reaching retirement age and no one else buying the business (which would be quite expensive to do when you consider not only a building or lease but all of the inventory, plus intellectual property).

I watched Chris’s video on the subject and I have to agree. The people that are saying it’s dying are one ones from the old days when everyone had a toy train. I’m of that generation. The simple way to put it is this. Changes in the hobby are here and these aren’t your fathers trains.

@ryanexpresstrains posted:

From a business standpoint, BTO makes perfect sense. But you're right, it can make it difficult for new modelers, especially younger ones with less disposable income, to jump in. Train shows are great for this reason. While you might not find the latest and greatest, you can find excellent deals and bargains on older models.

Like you say, tons of used but not abused stuff available.  I buy lots of "previously owned" stuff.  AAMOF, a vast majority of my stuff has had multiple owners.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

Like you say, tons of used but not abused stuff available.  I buy lots of "previously owned" stuff.  AAMOF, a vast majority of my stuff has had multiple owners.

Same here. I don't have one locomotive that I was the original owner of. However, several were never run and in mint condition when I found them for sale. There's plenty of gems to be found at the shows!

@MONON_JIM posted:

Whether it is or is not dying, I really couldn’t care less. I have more things than I will ever use, no need to buy anything new. If it is dying, it will not affect my enjoyment or the time I spend on it. If the hobby attracts younger folks great. We all can’t start out with top of the line everything. It is like riding on a passenger train, the journey isn’t as important as the destination. That is the way I look at it.

Well, the saying most often heard is that in life it's not the destination, it's the journey that's most important. Not the other way around.

In any case, I think a lot of us don't share the view that what happens in the future doesn't matter, as long as I'm having a good time now. If I'm invested in something, whether it's children or grandchildren or the planet or even a hobby I care about, I do feel concerned about the future. I think it's natural that we would want others to participate in and share the enjoyment we feel in the hobby.

Just my opinion.

@breezinup posted:

Well, the saying most often heard is that in life it's not the destination, it's the journey that's most important. Not the other way around.

In any case, I think a lot of us don't share the view that what happens in the future doesn't matter, as long as I'm having a good time now. If I'm invested in something, whether it's children or grandchildren or the planet or even a hobby I care about, I do feel concerned about the future. I think it's natural that we would want others to participate in and share the enjoyment we feel in the hobby.

Just my opinion.

I concur. I love that my kids are both very interested in trains and share the hobby with me. My oldest is even getting into kit building. I love seeing the kids and families at York and other shows.

@Chris3671 posted:

....... built to order making it more of a collector's hobby now, making models even rarer once they are sold out. I get why they do BTO but it's a turn-off for newcomers and people in the age group between 14-30. I got back into the hobby early this year and so far it's been okay but it sucks that certain models I want are a lot harder to find than it was a decade ago.

Can't say I agree with this assessment. It's not like the O gauge items previously offered are the last items that will ever be made. New stuff continues to be made every year, including many models which have been offered before. Lionel, for example, has catalogs coming out twice a year, plus an incredible number of special offerings through dealers. And most of those in the hobby are always clamoring for new items.

Lionel has never offered the same items year after year after year. Their catalogs going back to the Postwar years came out every year, with new stuff in every catalog. Some items were never repeated, while some were repeated for a couple of years before going out of production. Nothing new with what's going on now.

20 years ago there were too many items made and things got blown out all the time. That economic model doesn't work any more (and probably never did). Even in those days, many items went way up in price, and lots of people were treating Lionel trains like investments. Yes, and many things also got scarce - and more expensive - back in the day, such that many people "invested" in them.

I think the argument can easily be made that - given the far greater production carried out today, with catalogs multiple times larger than those years ago, and online auction sites and other sales outlets everywhere - there's far more to chose from, and more bargain prices everywhere, that weren't around in previous years. As many have said, in fact as far as choice we're in a new golden age of O gauge railroading.

Dave - I must admit that when I saw your topic appear on the OGR Forum, I immediately thought that it  was another post York meet moan and groan.  However much to my delight your topic , comments by you, your Youtube video ( I just subscribed to your channel btw ) and others who have weighed in is amazingly refreshing!!  

I've been back into the hobby for the last 20 years after having left it, as a practicing model railroader, for almost 30 years.  Upon my reentry I was blown away by the amazing advancements in ogauge/scale!  Yes the hobby is changing, evolving, and moving forward!   I agree that social media and YouTubers have impacted the hobby in a most positive way!  

When I was a young kid during the 1950s/60s train stores, department stores, and some hardware stores were the places to go to see and buy trains.   Brick and mortar train stores have been disappearing for decades now.  While I certainly have totally enjoyed frequenting those establishments over the years, the mode of retail business has changed in all facets of retail, not just model trains ... Who remembers 5and 10 cent stores?    Replacing those brick and mortar train stores are the train shows which draw thousands of people to view and experience the hobby in action. When I go to the Great Scale Train Show in Timonium, Md. I see many families with younger kids at the show.   To my knowledge, at least in my area, there were never any train shows during the 1950's/60s and if so, they certainly didn't draw huge crowds.   Social media, on line forums such as OGR, online retailers,  train shows, and the like have collectively jettisoned the model railroading hobby ( all scales ) forward by exposing the hobby to millions world wide.  

I have long thought that one day as we boomers fade away,  2 rail O gauge/scale will replace three rail as the dominant hobby choice of those who wish to model in O .  I think the next generation or perhaps the one after that will greatly desire the realism that two rail has to offer.  Plus battery operation and AI will make transformers/brick/ and wiring obsolete.   I say this as one who grew up with Lionel three rail tubular track and currently model high rail with Gargraves 3 rail Phantom.    I think a lot of us who choose to model in 3 rail do so as a nostalgic link to those 3 rail postwar years ... I know I do.  

Thanks again Dave for your positive review of the last three shows you attended!!  Much appreciated!!  I look forward to seeing more episodes on your Youtube channel!

The hobby is changing and the prospective hobbyists are changing.

I have been in postwar conventional control trains (started 44 years ago when my kids were young) and that area is definitely dying.  The traffic and interest in postwar on OGR is way down too.

The postwar guys are dying out and the DCC, phone operated, newer, fancier, high cost trains appeal to the younger train hobbyists and have been growing for sure.  That is the growing and the future of model trains, at same time pricing out youngsters..

The prospective hobbyists have changed too.  Very few  youngsters know  how to use tools or how to build or fix anything.  They just do not care to learn either.  They are fixated on their machines, phones and computers.  Most could care less about real trains or model trains.  I was one done with model trains as a teen having grown up with a Christmas postwar layout.  I gravitated into model building, U control model gas powered planes, flying  stunt and combat and later radio control boats (tubes !) and free flight gas float planes.  We lived on a bay in south Texas and the water models had to compete with water skiing.  These were much more active, fast and challenging to build and fly or float.  I had one friend into HO trains and I thought they were boring.

So the hobby has a bright spot with newer, DCC controlled trains and a dead spot with postwar and is in trouble with youngsters joining the hobby.  It is hard for them to come up with $1000 for one engine.  Most of the folks at the local TCA train meets are senior citizens with a few families coming to the shows around here in the south.  In door model trains are great for the cold, long winters in the north but in the south the weather is mild and out of door activities are often still possible.

Charlie

I am proof it’s not.  I had ton of Lionel MPC era stuff from my childhood and all my dads prewar and postwar stuff in boxes in the attic for years.  One Christmas a few years ago I decided to put a train around the tree for the kids.  Now I don’t even want to say how much my last order from the last lionel catalog was or how much I have spent at Stockyard Express or Mr Muffins over the last 2 years.  I think it’s a hobby that comes and goes sometimes and you can lose interest, but it will always be here and there will always be a community of friendly people around.

@trumpettrain posted:

Dave - I must admit that when I saw your topic appear on the OGR Forum, I immediately thought that it  was another post York meet moan and groan.  However much to my delight your topic , comments by you, your Youtube video ( I just subscribed to your channel btw ) and others who have weighed in is amazingly refreshing!!  

I've been back into the hobby for the last 20 years after having left it, as a practicing model railroader, for almost 30 years.  Upon my reentry I was blown away by the amazing advancements in ogauge/scale!  Yes the hobby is changing, evolving, and moving forward!   I agree that social media and YouTubers have impacted the hobby in a most positive way!  

When I was a young kid during the 1950s/60s train stores, department stores, and some hardware stores were the places to go to see and buy trains.  Brick and mortar train stores have been disappearing for decades now.  While I certainly have totally enjoyed frequenting those establishments over the years, the mode of retail business has changed in all facets of retail, not just model trains.  Replacing those brick in mortar train stores are the train shows which draw thousands of people to view and experience the hobby in action.  To my knowledge, at least in my area, there were never any train shows during the 1950's/60s and if so, they certainly didn't draw huge crowds.   Social media, on line forums such as OGR, online retailers,  train shows, and the like have collectively jettisoned the model railroading hobby forward by bringing the hobby to millions world wide.  

I have long thought that one day as we boomers fade away,  2 rail O gauge/scale will replace three rail as the dominant hobby choice of those who wish to model in O .  I think the next generation or perhaps the one after that will greatly desire the realism that two rail has to offer.  Plus battery operation and AI will make transformers/brick/ and wiring obsolete.   I say this as one who grew up with Lionel three rail tubular track and currently model with Gargraves 3 rail.    I think a lot of us who choose to model in 3 rail process a nostalgic link to those 3 rail postwar years ... I know I do.  

Thanks again Dave for your positive review of the last three shows you attended!!  Much appreciated!!  I look forward to seeing more episodes on your Youtube channel!

Thanks for the response and your YouTube subscription!

Great thoughts. I agree. It’s evolved and changed, but certainly isn’t dying. I mentioned this in the video, I was a hi-railer for 15 years. But I didn’t grow up in the postwar era and didn’t have that same nostalgia for postwar Lionel trains that a lot of guys do. I’m one of those that made that switch to 2-rail O (after a couple of years in HO, which even with DCC/sound didn’t excite and interest me like O does with it’s sound, size, and presence). You mentioned about wiring- I know quite a few younger 2-rail guys who are in to Deadrail battery operation. The new Soundtraxx Blunami decoders have been a dream come true for them. Speaking of, advancements like that- even for us DCC guys or 3-rail guys (I’ve seen Sid and Johnny both installing Blunami in their 3-rail locos), again speaks to the advancement and evolution of the hobby. I think it’s a golden age of model railroading and will just keep getting better.

Thanks again Patrick!

@ChrisFromCle posted:

I am proof it’s not.  I had ton of Lionel MPC era stuff from my childhood and all my dads prewar and postwar stuff in boxes in the attic for years.  One Christmas a few years ago I decided to put a train around the tree for the kids.  Now I don’t even want to say how much my last order from the last lionel catalog was or how much I have spent at Stockyard Express or Mr Muffins over the last 2 years.  I think it’s a hobby that comes and goes sometimes and you can lose interest, but it will always be here and there will always be a community of friendly people around.

Similar story for me. My grandparents bought me Lionel trains (MPC era stuff) as a kid that I played with and loved. Like a lot of guys, didn’t mess with it much once high school came around and there were girls and sports, but after college and grad school got back into it. Actually, my first year out of college someone gave me a $200 Hobby Lobby gift card for Christmas. At the time they sold Lionel, and I used that toward a Lionel train set for under my Christmas tree. The rest was history…and once we had kids, like you, it just really took off.

I think Mike Wolf deserves some (a lot of) credit for the current state of the hobby.

@PRRick posted:

I think Mike Wolf deserves some (a lot of) credit for the current state of the hobby.

I completely agree. He may have saved 3-rail altogether when he started MTH making prototypically correct trains. And as someone who’s now a 2-railer, I appreciate that MTH made 2-rail versions of everything. I have quite a bit of MTH in my collection. Even when I was in 3-rail, I tended to prefer MTH due to the realism.

The hobby is far from being in the casket... The Youtube guys are doing a great job, Chris, Sean, Dakman etc...I, also am the moderator of the Lionel Trains with TMCC and Legacy facebook page and every day I get 3 requests to join and currently with have almost 1400 members. Now the dealers like Gryzboski, for example, is doing 5 exclusive Reading and Northern runs and Mr. Muffins does numerous exclusive runs from every catalog. The hobby changed for the better, I am Reading and Northern fan so I love what is happening. I think Lionel going Reading and Northern, New Hope and Ivyland, Susquehanna, Black River and Western has been a real benefit to all.

Lots of great comments here.  It's obvious that from a modern train/command control/layout operator/builder perspective, the hobby is growing and is in fine shape.  What do you see out there for those of us who are into the hobby from the collector side, in particular the pre-war tinplate collectors?

"He may have saved 3-rail altogether when he started MTH making prototypically correct trains. "

The three rail hobby did not need saving in the mid-1990s.  Credit to MTH for what they did, but prototypically correct trains in three rail were being made by Mike Wolf's mentor Jerry Williams, and even moreso by Weaver and Right of Way. MTH took that idea and ran with it very successfully, amplifying that trend. And Lionel was dramatically changing the hobby, and doing very well with Dick Kughn in charge and Neil Young developing Railsounds and TMCC.  I'd agree that MTH dramatically helped increase the growth of the three rail hobby, but "saving it"  does not accurately reflect what I saw happening in the 1990s.  MTH was a major participant in a growth and innovation spurt that included all comers, including Lionel, Williams, K-Line, etc. But saving the hobby, no.

IMO, "O-gauge" is niching into a smaller and tailored part of the larger segment of model railroading - the latter certainly is not dying. I'll state unequivocally, our hobby is not the same as it was when MTH, Weaver, and K-line were active and robust. Lionel is once again the "Lion" and sustains a very healthy and profusion of engines and rolling stock. Fortunately, as "O-gauge" companies have either closed or re-organized, the secondary market and cottage industries enables a hobbyist to find items to build a layout.

@Landsteiner posted:

"He may have saved 3-rail altogether when he started MTH making prototypically correct trains. "

The three rail hobby did not need saving in the mid-1990s.  Credit to MTH for what they did, but prototypically correct trains in three rail were being made by Mike Wolf's mentor Jerry Williams, and even moreso by Weaver and Right of Way. MTH took that idea and ran with it very successfully, amplifying that trend. And Lionel was dramatically changing the hobby, and doing very well with Dick Kughn in charge and Neil Young developing Railsounds and TMCC.  I'd agree that MTH dramatically helped increase the growth of the three rail hobby, but "saving it"  does not accurately reflect what I saw happening in the 1990s.  MTH was a major participant in a growth and innovation spurt that included all comers, including Lionel, Williams, K-Line, etc. But saving the hobby, no.

Fair points. Maybe a better way of saying it is it accelerated the growth. Weaver made some beautiful brass locomotives in the late 80’s/90’s (I have some). Same with Williams. Actually, the N&W J you see over my shoulder in the video is a Williams brass model. It’s spectacular.

@Cincytrains posted:

The hobby is far from being in the casket... The Youtube guys are doing a great job, Chris, Sean, Dakman etc...I, also am the moderator of the Lionel Trains with TMCC and Legacy facebook page and every day I get 3 requests to join and currently with have almost 1400 members. Now the dealers like Gryzboski, for example, is doing 5 exclusive Reading and Northern runs and Mr. Muffins does numerous exclusive runs from every catalog. The hobby changed for the better, I am Reading and Northern fan so I love what is happening. I think Lionel going Reading and Northern, New Hope and Ivyland, Susquehanna, Black River and Western has been a real benefit to all.

I agree. And Lionel leaning into these heritage/tourists lines I think has been a huge success.

@Gregg Z posted:

Lots of great comments here.  It's obvious that from a modern train/command control/layout operator/builder perspective, the hobby is growing and is in fine shape.  What do you see out there for those of us who are into the hobby from the collector side, in particular the pre-war tinplate collectors?

My personal opinion, I think that’s probably becoming more and more a niche, especially as we move further away from the pre-war/post-war era. I think there will always be a market, because there will be people who still enjoy collecting it. I just think it’ll become more and more a niche. Just my observation, I feel like that’s what you see not selling as much at shows like York.

Why do these threads always remind me of that scene from Spinal Tap?

Marty : The last time Tap toured America, they where, uh, booked into 10,000 seat arenas, and 15,000 seat venues, and it seems that now, on their current tour they're being booked into 1,200 seat arenas, 1,500 seat arenas, and uh I was just wondering, does this mean uh...the popularity of the group is waning?

Ian : Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no...no, no, not at all. I, I, I just think that the.. uh.. their appeal is becoming more selective.

@ryanexpresstrains posted:

I agree. And Lionel leaning into these heritage/tourists lines I think has been a huge success.

Yes sir!! Try and find the Lionel T1 lettered for Reading and Northern, a sleeper set was the New Hope passenger set. These are models that people see and can ride behind. The Strasburg 89 was also a hit, I love mine..

@ryanexpresstrains Ryan, it was great to meet you at York. You have a beautiful family and are very lucky to have a supportive wife and children who are into this hobby. I wish my kids were but maybe if I can get my layout built they might gain some interest. You and I have gone in some very similar paths and have similar interests. To make a long story short I got back into this hobby in 1997 and I originally was going to collect post war but the new scale sized trains really got me hooked and I got into that heavily and then I really started liking the look of 2 rail track so I decided to switch to 2 rail. I have always been a big fan of MTH for supporting the 2 rail side of O scale. I know a lot of the more traditional 2 rail guys hate MTH or Lionel but in my opinion you can't deny that a lot of the scale stuff from the 3 rail companies looks great. (my opinion) I love my MTH (-2) 2 rail engines and before the pandemic and the announced close of MTH they were easy to find and reasonably priced but now it is the opposite. Fortunately, since I have been doing this for years I have pretty much all I need. Another thing we have in common is like you I am not old enough to have seen steam but I love it. There is just something a steam engine that makes it very special. Maybe it is the smoke or the wheels and rods but to me they are very cool.

My opinion on the hobby is I agree with you. I think it is thriving. There are a lot of passionate modelers and toy train enthusiasts out there doing great things. The hobby will be around for many years after I am gone. What is dying though is the model railroad shop. I understand as mentioned above that things are changing but throughout all my life I always enjoyed going to a "train store" or a hobby shop even if I didn't have a lot of money to spend. I could just walk around the store and look at the trains and all the accessories for about an hour. I did this even as a kid looking at all the awesome trains I could not afford at the time. Fortunately, there are some train stores still around but the number is dwindling. It will be a sad day when there are no more left in my area.

I really enjoyed your video and I will watch some of your other videos when I have time.

@trumpettrain posted:

I have long thought that one day as we boomers fade away,  2 rail O gauge/scale will replace three rail as the dominant hobby choice of those who wish to model in O .  I think the next generation or perhaps the one after that will greatly desire the realism that two rail has to offer.

I used to think the same way but it is most likely never going to happen. The problem with 2 rail taking over is #1) that there are a lot of guys who want to run large engines on tight curves. Now it is true the number of rails has nothing to do with what curve a locomotive can pass through but O scale 2 rail trains are not made with the compromises that 3 rail trains are so they cannot make those tight turns. And #2) there are way to many guys who have a lot invested in 3 rail trains to switch over to 2 rail. It just isn't going to happen. Yes, some new people just entering the hobby might choose 2 rail but it isn't a lot of people and most likely just as many will enter the hobby and choose 3 rail either for nostalgic purposes or space purposes. The only way I could see 2 rail getting real popular is if Lionel made 2 rail trains that could go around tight curves but I doubt they would do this and would there even be a market for it? Probably not which explains why Lionel never did offer 2 rail.

@Cincytrains posted:

Yes sir!! Try and find the Lionel T1 lettered for Reading and Northern, a sleeper set was the New Hope passenger set. These are models that people see and can ride behind. The Strasburg 89 was also a hit, I love mine..

Total home run by Lionel. And just wait until we finally get Strasburg 90...

@Hudson J1e posted:

@ryanexpresstrains Ryan, it was great to meet you at York. You have a beautiful family and are very lucky to have a supportive wife and children who are into this hobby. I wish my kids were but maybe if I can get my layout built they might gain some interest. You and I have gone in some very similar paths and have similar interests. To make a long story short I got back into this hobby in 1997 and I originally was going to collect post war but the new scale sized trains really got me hooked and I got into that heavily and then I really started liking the look of 2 rail track so I decided to switch to 2 rail. I have always been a big fan of MTH for supporting the 2 rail side of O scale. I know a lot of the more traditional 2 rail guys hate MTH or Lionel but in my opinion you can't deny that a lot of the scale stuff from the 3 rail companies looks great. (my opinion) I love my MTH (-2) 2 rail engines and before the pandemic and the announced close of MTH they were easy to find and reasonably priced but now it is the opposite. Fortunately, since I have been doing this for years I have pretty much all I need. Another thing we have in common is like you I am not old enough to have seen steam but I love it. There is just something a steam engine that makes it very special. Maybe it is the smoke or the wheels and rods but to me they are very cool.

My opinion on the hobby is I agree with you. I think it is thriving. There are a lot of passionate modelers and toy train enthusiasts out there doing great things. The hobby will be around for many years after I am gone. What is dying though is the model railroad shop. I understand as mentioned above that things are changing but throughout all my life I always enjoyed going to a "train store" or a hobby shop even if I didn't have a lot of money to spend. I could just walk around the store and look at the trains and all the accessories for about an hour. I did this even as a kid looking at all the awesome trains I could not afford at the time. Fortunately, there are some train stores still around but the number is dwindling. It will be a sad day when there are no more left in my area.

I really enjoyed your video and I will watch some of your other videos when I have time.

Phil, it was great meeting you as well! I'm a big fan of both MTH and Lionel's scale stuff. In fact, I have a couple of Lionel locomotives that were converted to 2-rail. They're gorgeous. I've spoken to MTH about making 2-rail stuff again. They told me they're actually getting a lot of requests for that, so hopefully that comes to fruition. That would be huge. I also think it's great that Atlas is increasing the amount of 2-rail stuff they're coming out with.

You're right about the local hobby shops. Unfortunately, we've lost a lot. I mentioned it above, I don't even think it's always about them being profitable or not profitable. I think a lot of times the owner comes to retirement age and there's no one to buy the business. I can see where that could be cost prohibitive for a perspective buyer. You have a storefront- whether to purchase or assume a lease, plus intellectual property and of course, the inventory. Most of the current hobby shops started from scratch and built up to what they are. To purchase one now, with all that I just mentioned, would be millions of dollars at least. I'm very grateful for my local hobby shop (Mainline Hobby Supply in Blue Ridge Summit, PA) and hope they're around for years to come.

@Hudson J1e posted:

I used to think the same way but it is most likely never going to happen. The problem with 2 rail taking over is #1) that there are a lot of guys who want to run large engines on tight curves. Now it is true the number of rails has nothing to do with what curve a locomotive can pass through but O scale 2 rail trains are not made with the compromises that 3 rail trains are so they cannot make those tight turns. And #2) there are way to many guys who have a lot invested in 3 rail trains to switch over to 2 rail. It just isn't going to happen. Yes, some new people just entering the hobby might choose 2 rail but it isn't a lot of people and most likely just as many will enter the hobby and choose 3 rail either for nostalgic purposes or space purposes. The only way I could see 2 rail getting real popular is if Lionel made 2 rail trains that could go around tight curves but I doubt they would do this and would there even be a market for it? Probably not which explains why Lionel never did offer 2 rail.

2-rail is growing, but the growth is coming from converts from HO or 3-rail O. I think for it to truly reach modelers new to the hobby, a company like Atlas (who has track, motive power, and rolling stock in 2-rail) is going to have to come out with a starter set. So many people start out in the hobby by purchasing a starter set to run under the Christmas tree and it grows from there.

Track radius is another valid point. My minimum radius on my layout mainline is 54" (3-rail equivalent of 0-108). That allows me to run pretty much any steam I want. I do have 50" on my branch, which most of my steam locomotives will run on. There's a few exceptions, but most stuff will run on my layout. I have a good friend in TN who's a 2-railer with an excellent Clinchfield layout. His minimum radius is 36" (3-rail 0-72). But most steam isn't an option for him- he runs all diesels, although he is able to get small steam, like 2-8-0's, around his layout.

Lionel made some 2-rail in the past, and I wish they would again. There's several things every year that pop up in their catalog that I would jump on if they were also offered in 2-rail. Unfortunately, the gentlemen who was well known for converting 3-rail locomotives to 2-rail passed away. I have a few locomotives he converted. I have heard a couple of other guys may be taking up the work, so that would be good.

@ryanexpresstrains posted:

Phil, it was great meeting you as well! I'm a big fan of both MTH and Lionel's scale stuff. In fact, I have a couple of Lionel locomotives that were converted to 2-rail. They're gorgeous. I've spoken to MTH about making 2-rail stuff again. They told me they're actually getting a lot of requests for that, so hopefully that comes to fruition. That would be huge. I also think it's great that Atlas is increasing the amount of 2-rail stuff they're coming out with.

Wow Ryan, that would really be great. I don't know if it is feasible but I hope they do the smaller engines as well as large engines. I have a MTH 0-6-0 that I love and it is one of the best running MTH engines I have ever owned. I had a chance to buy a (-2) 0-8-0 but it was in green in Southern paint scheme and now I totally regret not buying it. The smaller engines can run on any layout so you would think they would sell well but it seems the larger engines sell better. I am not sure why.