Is this a Max Gray PRR E6s 4-4-2? No, it is Williams!

I'm going to say it is a OEM 2 rail version of a Williams E6s. That has been repainted, and possibly the pilot truck modified. The gearbox does not look to be MG.

BTW, the Williams are reliable runners.

I’m with Chris, the plate across the entire bottom looks Williams (ish) …….MG’s or USH would have an open frame much more rich with detail,….

Pat

I agree that is it not a Max Grey or USHobbies.     I have an MG and mine has a fabricated brass gearbox with a plate identifying it as a Max Grey and KTM.    Mine came with an open frame DC motor and I have replaced with a can motor.   Also mine has not back head at all, you can see the motor in the cab if you look closely.

The cast gearbox might lead to USH but all their diecast gearboxes I have sen has KTM molded in the bottom.   And they look bigger than this one.   USH also did at least one run of the E6,

My first guess was a Sunset done in the 80s, but those had a belt and pulley drive.   

I have a Wiliams B6 0-6-0 and the gearbox style does look like that and it came with a "can" motor.    However, all the williams and Weaver versions I have seen have long front pilot decks and over long lead trucks.    This was done to accomodate the 3-rail version for curves.  

This may however be a williams that has been reworked and kitbashed into a better model than when it came out of the box.   The lead truck and pilot look better proportioned to the prototype.

Thanks for all the responses. The consensus is that it's a Williams. I did some searches and came up with a Gunrunnerjohn Youtube video of a Williams 3-rail E6s. It's a match to my engine except for the wheels (I will look more closely later to see if I can see other differences). I have attached a screen shot and a link to the video.

I admit I am a bit torn. The only other engines I have are "earlier" brass PRR. This one is later (though probably still 25 years old), so I don't know what I want to do with it. I don't have a layout; they just sit on a shelf.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujb7eLtkCaQ

Sunset, Third rail also did a similar E6.  Note the different cab number (723).

The non-scale extended pilot platforms on the William's examples are usually a clue, obvious on GRJ's.  Check to see if there are signs of modifications in that area, since your example looks prototypical correct.

Bruce

It is now apparent that this a a modified and detailed Williams E6s. I found internet pictures of the original Williams and compared them to mine.

Up first are two side views: the original, then mine. The shortening of the pilot platform is shown. Note, too, the changed bell, changed whistle shield and the piping below running board.

Here, on the red background, is the 3 rail frame (or two rail as well, I guess). The next two clearly show how my frame was cut.

Last two are of running gear. The overall view shows that bent reverse gear cross carrier. The second shows the name on the gearbox as "SAM Korea", indicating a Samhongsa build. The cylinders are in fact on the driver center lines. I understood some of the Williams engines had the cylinders raised.

It depends on what  your objective is.   If it is to collect older Max Grey and USHobbies stuff, this is not it.    but if you just like nice older models, you have something unique.    I think the detail is probably a little better on this than on an MG version which I have.    There are more turnings such as the generator on the MG and more Lost was castings on the newer Williams.  

The Williams most probably came as a 2 rail engine.   They did them both ways, my B6 came new as 2 rail.   You have a nicely customized model that is  unique.    As a model it is probably as good as the MG.   As a collection piece that you want to be all original, it is not.

I've got a G-5 I'd like to make this modification on. Do you know if they used a different pilot truck or modified the existing one?

It’s a cool piece, for sure, …..Jim is correct, you’ve got a unique piece that looks like someone did some fairly careful mods to,…..I see you’ve got drawings strewn of the real deal, so how does it stack up?….were the mods done proper to the 1:1? That would be the ticket!…

Pat

Thanks, prrjim, for your comments. Although it isn't what I expected, I do like the engine and have already fixed that reverse cross shaft.

The pilot truck is completely different. It has frame and spring detail coined on the sides. It is also shorter. It probably was included with the 2-rail version.  I have not found a photo of a 2-rail E6s.

As to the pilot, it is original. It was simply moved back by cutting the frame and tapping two new screw holes on the frame sides. The pilot design made the change an easy one. The pictures are of the pilot on my Saginaw G5. I've no idea how faithful it is to the prototype, but the pictures might be of some use. The pilot frame is a crude casting with representation of brake shoes. The wheels are very close to the pilot.

Your Williams E6s looks much like mine. Which originally was 3rail. Joe Foerkolb converted the drivers and trailing wheelset. He also fabricated a new pilot truck. I did the work bringing the pilot in closer and added a lot of piping and detailing.

I’ll post photos later,

A major portion of yesterday was spent applying the first coat of paint remover to the disassembled engine. I used Klean Strip Kwik-Strip remover. It dissolved my vinyl gloves in less than 5 seconds! The paint on the engine took longer but was almost completely removed with the single coat.  A toothbrush and hot water wash were used.

Left were brass parts that didn't look like brass. With the exception of the frame and a few other parts, all had what looked to be a dark or oxidized surface. Maybe the parts were blasted with something or primed. I don't know.

Surprising was detail that looked like it was "factory applied". The 3-rail engines have no piping below the right running board. Mine does - but it looks too professionally applied, plus the finish on the piping is the same dark color. There is no way I could do piping like that. All the detail on the engine is the same except the filing of the frame front - which is comparatively crude.

Also for reference is the 2-rail front truck side frame. The front ears of the main frame were shortened. With the paint off, it can be seen the bottom of the ears were relieved to allow clearance above the front pilot wheels.

Most interesting was the discovery of a BB casket within the boiler. The builder has fabricated a 3-side enclosure above the drive shaft and gearbox to hold weight. It was closed with a front cover which was detached by the paint remover. Inside were BBs, most were loose and were removed. A few remained glued in place. The weight of the loose BBs is just over 3 ounces. Every bit of weight on the drivers helps, I guess. I think glue of some sort was used to fasten the enclosure to the boiler. I got some sticky white goo with the cleanup; the parts (except for the cover) remain fastened to the boiler. I also slathered the tender coal load with the paint remover. It had zero effect. Every lump is exactly where it was before I started.

Some advice is needed on a couple of things. I tried loosening the main rod crankpin with pliers, but it did not want to budge. I am afraid of forcing it for fear of snapping the screw. Suggestions? I heated the screws to remove the screws on my G5, but there was no solder involved like there is here.

I plan to paint the engine. This will be a first; my other engines remain unpainted.  I don't plan to weather it, but would like it look like it had been in service a bit, if that even makes sense. I guess what I saying is I don't want it to look like a toy train. How should the rods be finished?  Smokebox finish? Decal source?

And, finally, the center wire for the bulb is broken off at the housing. the ground wire remains. I assume the bulb is a small incandescent. Do I just dig the thing out and replace the bulb and fabricate a new lens?

As always, thanks for the interest and responses. Jim

Are you having binding problems with the siderods? If not then hand paint the frame and driver centers. The body, off the frame, is sprayed.

For DGLE ( Brunswick Green), I find ScaleCoat to be the closest match. For better results, a thin coat of black goes under. It will darken the green even more.

Champs had a couple different sets of decals for PRR engines. You want the set for a ‘short’ tender. They show up at auction occasionally.

I agree with Chris, don't try to force it unless it has to come apart.

The eccentric is held in place with solder only. There is no screw under the solder. If you don’t need to take it apart any further, I agree with Chris & John above ….leave it alone……if you do find yourself wanting to take it apart, you’ll have to desolder that eccentric, then clean up the solder with solder wick, or a desoldering tool,…..if you do, be mindful of the clocking of the eccentric. This is crucial,…

Pat

Thanks for the advice. I will not disassemble. I did disassemble and relubricate the gear box, so that's done. I'm still working on cleanup - it's a tedious process.

If the eccentric is like the one on their 0-6-0s the hole is square as is the end of the crankpin. You can put a soldering iron on it while lifting gently and it will come off. Don’t twist.
Not really a big deal.

Pete

I chopped one of my WIlliams K4's both between the drivers and pilot and the end off the frame. Also cut about 1/8" out of the first course behind the fire box. Someone probably did the same or simialr to your E6.  It looks a lot better that way for sure.  From memory, I think I felt like most of the length in my K4 was between the sand dome and the stack but that the length of the firebox itself was about right.   Will look better with the flanges turned down and some work on the rear of the frame to hide or remove that funky hump that Williams designed in the rear frame.

That Aluminum blocked proved to be a major heat sink buy we got her...and she is solid now. Shorten the front truck frame from the stock 2-1/4" down to 2" or the correct 1-7/8" and add the larger correct sized pilot wheels makes a world of difference.

A lot of work. Certainly worth it, looks so much better.