Is This How They See Us?

Yes they do.

Rail plays a big role in getting You out of your personal vehicle (autonomy) and into public transit.........just like all of the dystopian movies such as 'The Hunger Games' show.

Pretty good article, actually, but with an unfortunate title lead-in. I wouldn't call it "geeking out" at all. Yes, they're interested in trains, but so what? They appear to be fairly intelligent guys who've had signifcant careers, often in the field of railroading, and closely followed the announcement together. They then had a fairly broad-based discussion of different facits of the proposed infrastructure bill (which frankly more Americans should do with respect to something this important). I didn't see anything geeky about it at all. The article's content reflected pretty well on all of them.

I have no (iron)horse in the race, but I find it rather disrespectfully written.  One might consider these gentlemen to be experts in railroad history, not just a bunch of nerds who couldn't find their way out of a phonebooth.

Imagine if the author actually asked questions to the experts he had at his disposal like:  Why hasn't this been done yet?  Is it economically feasible/sustainable?  Could a coast to coast high-speed rail corridor actually compete with air travel?  Do we actually need this type of travel in an age where we can meet virtually?  What is the long-term outlook on business travel? Why is rail travel more successful in some countries compared to others?  etc., etc., etc.

Reading this article was like someone writing about a group of epidemiologists and saying these geeks only think about teeny, tiny, little viruses and bacteria that you can't even see.  They read a book when they were a kid about cooties, and now they wake up thinking only about viral infections and the next pandemic 100 years from now.

@JD2035RR posted:

...Imagine if the author actually asked questions to the experts he had at his disposal like:  Why hasn't this been done yet?  Is it economically feasible/sustainable?  Could a coast to coast high-speed rail corridor actually compete with air travel?  Do we actually need this type of travel in an age where we can meet virtually?  What is the long-term outlook on business travel? Why is rail travel more successful in some countries compared to others?  etc., etc., etc....

That would be called JOURNALISM and it died a long time ago. No chance a so-called “reporter” is going to ask any hard questions these days.

Everything on the “news” now is politically motivated with an underlying agenda and political spin. Which is why I have tuned it ALL out. I haven’t watched any TV news for months. I’m much happier now.

I know, I know...ignorance is bliss. But it works for me.

We also have a huge rail project being pushed ahead at all costs - HS2. It’s clear that mass rail transit is a big part of the future, as our government see it.

The proposed Chicago-New York Electric Air Line Railroad, had it been constructed, would have seen the United States lead the way for high speed trains on the planet.  A pity the politicians in D.C. wore blinders during the pre-WWI period of American growth.  If the government had stepped in as it did when Amtrak was created just imagine what would be running on this line in Century 21?

More blinder blunders the D.C. idiots pulled during this period include:

1.) Refused to permit E. H. Harriman merge UP, SP, IC, and Erie to form a true transcontinental rail line.  IC would have linked the system at Chicago, the rail capitol of America, with the Port of New Orleans and the world as well, with the completion of the Panama Canal.

2.) Abandonment of the Colorado Midland during WWI at the time was being completely rebuilt after years of neglected maintainence.  The shortest line over the Rockies looked good on the map, thus the governmental nuts swamped CM with so much wartime traffic, it was forced to shut the line down.  The CM should have handled only priority traffic with the rest routed SP-UP and ATSF, from the west coast to the east for European destinations.

Are there more insane decisions made during this period by the D.C. comics?  If so, please list them as well.

Joe

Whatever the plans, I foresee direct service from Burlington Vermont's Union Station with New York Penn in the very near future.  The platform has been ripped up at Union Station, the bike path moved off to the West, and the platform shed taken down to make way for double-tracking the area around the station and installation of new platforms.  Along with being Vermont's largest city, it is also host to UVM, Champlain college, and Saint Michaels college.

Vergennes (America's SMALLEST city- 1 square mile) meanwhile has  moved its 19th Century era wooden station to a new platform position a few hundred yards north of where it had been left to rot since the Rutland gave up the ghost.  They've restored it beautifully, with plenty of well-lighted parking and a lighted concrete platform.

Middlebury is getting a new lighted concrete platform, shed and parking area this Spring, with construction slated to be complete by Fall.  That should be a busy stop with Middlebury College within a short walk of the platforms.

The rest of the "Ethan Allen Express" route from Rutland via Whitehall and Albany will remain the same.

Jon

Journalism....Media event....Federal spending/priorities....Future of rail...Pomp...Circumstance...Pols...

This thread has all the requisites of a short life.

IMHO, of course.

The South Shore commuter line(Downtown Chicago to South Bend, Indiana) is getting a six mile spur to Dyer, Indiana.  Total cost is estimated at $250 million tax payer dollars.  John

Lots of changes coming no doubt in transportation.  Impossible to predict the future.  If someone told you in 1900 that in 50 years a network of continent spanning roads would foster the automobile and mean the end of passenger rail service, it would have seemed totally preposterous.  Perhaps MagLev will work out for long distance trains.  Or some other technology that allows speeds of 300-500 mph which would be a game changer.  Or not. Or robotic vehicles that allow you to live in a car for a few days while being transported thousands of miles with little effort and little interruption of your daily life.  One thing is for certain.  The future won't look like the present.

I am absolutely an advocate of putting as much freight tonnage on the rails as is possible, and then increasing that amount by means of re-establishing rail service to more communities.  Get as many of those semis off the roads as possible.  One obvious benefit will be vastly reduced maintenance.  The jobs issue should be a wash as the RRs don't have the manpower to handle such increase, so the truckers will have a place to work.

I am only lukewarm about passenger traffic.  For some people and some situations, it will work well.  For others, it won't work at all.

We rarely travel more than half an hour from home; only a once or twice/year more than 2 hours.  When we do travel that far, it is for a reenactment.  That means a trailer load of gear, including our cannon, not exactly baggage that can be put in the overhead rack, ya know?

I was also lukewarm about passenger travel until I traveled via train in Spain and France. A very good experience.

To answer Jon's question directly, yes, mostly I think how we are perceived. Diehard railfans are like train birders- a little geekiness comes with the territory. Of course there are many positions on the geekiness spectrum, and the guys in this story are hardly at the extreme. Modern O gauge trains being so expensive, there probably are more successful, well-rounded people here than in the hobby as a whole. But any one who has ever visited a train show understands the general social awkwardness of many train "nuts".

@Rich Melvin posted:

That would be called JOURNALISM and it died a long time ago. No chance a so-called “reporter” is going to ask any hard questions these days.

Everything on the “news” now is politically motivated with an underlying agenda and political spin. Which is why I have tuned it ALL out. I haven’t watched any TV news for months. I’m much happier now.

I know, I know...ignorance is bliss. But it works for me.

I get all my news online now from sources I trust.  Never watch news on the tv now for a long time no matter which side is spinning it.

Well, that's certainly how a Politico reporter named Eugene Daniels sees us. When I saw the sub-headline which started "three rail superfans gathered on Zoom...", I thought they would be all Lionel guys. LOL.  And, yes, some of us are quite nerdy...not me, however.

@Rich Melvin posted:

That would be called JOURNALISM and it died a long time ago. No chance a so-called “reporter” is going to ask any hard questions these days.

Everything on the “news” now is politically motivated with an underlying agenda and political spin. Which is why I have tuned it ALL out. I haven’t watched any TV news for months. I’m much happier now.

I know, I know...ignorance is bliss. But it works for me.

AMEN!

I was at a Houston Galveston Area Council meeting befor Covid.  One of the items on the adgenda was the Texas Central high speed rail project.  I signed upfor my three minutes of comments as provided by State Law.  I said if you double the speed of an object, you need not double the amount of energy, but SQUARED.  So to get this train up to the speed you want is going to take a lot of energy.  To do this, you have to use overhead electrical power.  Now lets take a hot summer afternoon.  ERCOT (Same group as during the Uri furry) has issued an usage alert.  Now would a high speed train set up blackouts.  Remember those electrons have to come some somewhere.  Issac Netwon wrote about these principles.  And as Scotty stated:  YOU CANNOT VIOLATE THE LAWS OF PHYSICS.

Got no answer.

@JD2035RR posted:

I have no (iron)horse in the race, but I find it rather disrespectfully written.  One might consider these gentlemen to be experts in railroad history, not just a bunch of nerds who couldn't find their way out of a phonebooth.

Imagine if the author actually asked questions to the experts he had at his disposal like:  Why hasn't this been done yet?  Is it economically feasible/sustainable?  Could a coast to coast high-speed rail corridor actually compete with air travel?  Do we actually need this type of travel in an age where we can meet virtually?  What is the long-term outlook on business travel? Why is rail travel more successful in some countries compared to others?  etc., etc., etc.

Reading this article was like someone writing about a group of epidemiologists and saying these geeks only think about teeny, tiny, little viruses and bacteria that you can't even see.  They read a book when they were a kid about cooties, and now they wake up thinking only about viral infections and the next pandemic 100 years from now.

Exactly.  I know Dan Cupper, own some of his books, heard him speak, and have conversed with him on various PRR topics. Intelligent individual and nice guy as well.

It's incredibly sad to see what passes for journalism these days (whatever your political leanings).  These writers know very little, are unwilling to work at educating themselves on a topic, but are very happy to put their ignorance on public display. 

As for a national passenger rail system, that train left the station a very long time ago.  AmTrak is the poster child for inefficiency and incompetence, and we couldn't print the amount of money necessary to make such a system work.

George

@Dominic Mazoch posted:

Now would a high speed train set up blackouts.

Got no answer.

So am assuming by your statement you are against high speed rail ? Of course the electrical grid will have to be updated to handle the load. Just like if we ever go to all electric vehicles and everyone is plugging in their cars at night. The electrical grid and many other upgrades will happen as the high speed railway is being built.

I live in a area that was highly industrial back in the day and anytime they want to develop our lakeside water front, people come out and make noise about what will happen about this or that.

so what happens here virtually nothing !

I lived through the URI blackout...

To upgrade the grid:  Who will pay for it?

Actually, HSR makes more sense on the I35 corridor.  San Antonio and Austin are booming. 

Going HOU-DAL via Brian/College Station makes no sense.  Goes out of the way.

Except for Brian, no other intermediate stations.  Sure, stations will slow down some trains, but you can have locals, and have bypass tracks at stations.  A good transportation system uses all levels of connections.

Does it have to be as fast as they say.  With time getting Downtown to/from Airport, and security waits, maybe the trains do not have to be as fast to compete.  That means the construction and operation will be cheaper.

And I have been around some of the Texas Central people at meetings.  They do not inspire confidence.  Now if Brightline was running the show, I would be more positive.

Against HSR?  Depends.  As it is stands now, I am against TCR.

Not sure why someone who has a bunch of American Flyer trains was included, and I thought that the references to tourist lines in Britain was irrelevant.  Perhaps the author could have included some folks from Trains magazine.

On one trip to England, we took the train from London (convenient station and schedule) to York.  We were able to obtain a rental car at the York station - very convenient.  This arrangement made the train a better option than driving. 

In order for rail travel to work here, service needs to be upgraded so that it becomes an attractive option. As long as trains are infrequent and slow, people will prefer to drive.  Doing so will take a substantial investment.