Is "York becoming a social event " for more of its attendees good for the meet?

Makes perfect sense to me. If the dealers don’t sell enough to justify the time and cost involved, then they won’t come back. That would be a shame.

I don’t know anyone, so I am only there to shop so far. 

York is not a money-maker for OGR in any way, shape, or form. We are there because we are an information source for many in our hobby and we do our best to spread the word to those who may not know about us yet; to attract potential new readers and advertisers; and to "fly the flag" promoting model railroading as the great hobby it is.

I personally consider it a "social event" because I enjoy meeting with old friends there and hopefully making some new ones, not to mention the fact that my year-old grandson is already going to someday inherit a huge amount of trains and I really don't need many more. However, that fact does not keep me from making new purchases at York and elsewhere. We only get one shot at existing on this insignificant planet, so might as well have fun!

This is an aging hobby. Layouts get completed and collections do fill up.

Even malls are closing, and they used to be great places for socializing, but folks just walking around and having an occasional snack have not been enough to keep brick-and-mortar businesses in business. An example would be what is happening to Sears, and they used to be almost a required presence at a mall to get it up and running. Another example would be Toys Are Us. What happened to them? We at the TCA Meets at York, PA are not immune to such pressures and realities, are we.

The buildings at York are temporary brick-and-mortar market places. If the socializing draws people in, then that is advantageous. If folks make purchases, then the event can continue.

If more and more purchases are made on-line, like my wife's and mine are for everything else besides trains, and we used to spend whole afternoons at malls, then the "writing is on the wall," alas. I think the only thing I still buy in-person at a store is a new car, and those events are far apart.

I used to have a booth in the Orange Hall. At each Meet, I sold everything I had made for that event (usually 41 - 48 pieces, from @$29 - $1,400 each). Yet, even my biggest customers had their layouts eventually reach completion. They needed less and less. Plus, since I am aging, I have my own particular limitations, nowadays, so I do not go to York any further, though I do continue to sell on-line from my website and over the phone.

WE are in the midst of big economic and social changes, currently, as everybody knows. If vendors at York continue to participate but sell very little, I can imagine continued attendance may become a challenge, regardless of how pleasantly folks are there meeting with friends. The social aspect provides a conducive atmosphere, but if sales approach ZERO, why should a vendor keep participating? Participation as a vendor is a lot of work, you know.

Money talks.

FrankM, Layout Refinements, and Moon Township, USA

Depends upon why York exists and what their revenue streams are, if the ED can make money by allowing folks to come in and walk around empty halls to socialize then great!

If the ED needs vendors to attract those folks to pay to come in and walk around, well not so great. Without the vendors, attendance drops, attendance drops enough and the show ends. Vendors need sales to attend, either onsite or that they are measure came from being at York.

So many similar threads have spoken to the local hobby shop closing, and in the same post make reference the store being a social club -- one that the former owner paid to operate. Why everyone loves a place to hang out, heated, cooled, lights on, perhaps a free cup of coffee, but that should be a club, which most likely has a membership fee, not a store, or train show where people are attempting to earn a living.

I have been going 41 years, & it has always been a social thing . 166 days to York week.

eddie g posted:

I have been going 41 years, & it has always been a social thing . 166 days to York week.

And that's a good thing, isn't it, sir.

Short answer:  Yes.

Longer answer:  Anytime I gather with fellow hobbyists in any hobby, the hobby is often less important than the comradery we share.  Humans are social beings and when I can socialize around this incredible hobby with all it's wonderful diversity of interests and knowledge, I enjoy the hobby much more.  It's a place were we put aside differences and simply enjoy time together. 

Moonson posted:

eddie g posted:

I have been going 41 years, & it has always been a social thing . 166 days to York week.

And that's a good thing, isn't it, sir.

From Eddie G's viewpoint, for his mental and physical well-being, it obviously has been, Moonson. For the dealers who've sold there during those 44 years, it obviously depends on how many dollars worth of merchandise he's purchased all those years.

ogaugeguy posted:

From Eddie G's viewpoint, for his mental and physical well-being, it obviously has been, Moonson. For the dealers who've sold there during those 44 years, it obviously depends on how many dollars worth of merchandise he's purchased all those years.

My guess is most of Eddie's purchases came from the members halls.  Eddie will still be happy as long as there are member halls.

Probably like a lot of people, it used to be buying and has become socializing. But give me something nice to buy, and I will certainly do that. Maybe part of the problem is that with what I now own, the marginal utility of that next engine or set of passenger cars or whatever is greatly diminished from what it used to be when I had only a few of each item. But I still have a great time because of the friends I've made over a quarter of a century of coming to York.

Gerry

I do go to YORK to socialize and kick the tires so to say.  The vendors are there to sell their wares and have them priced what they think they can get for a piece.  They are also there to dicker or not on a piece.  I have never paid what the asking price is on any given product.  Either give a price I am willing to pay or ask if it the best they can do on it.  Nine times out of ten the vendors are willing to deal?  If not I just walk away and go look for something else that catches my fancy.  I also tell the vendor, "that's all my WIFE gave me to spend on it".  It gets a chuckle every now and then.  Have fun at YORK, that's why we go!!!!

It has become mainly a social event for me......but at the same time I dropped at least a $1000+ (parts; odds and ends; a car here, a car there; a set here....it adds up quickly and flies under the radar)....because of what I saw at past York's, I purchased the Lionel Conrail F7 and the Lionel Niagara from MrMuffin....

So, I am hard pressed to say that I am not buying, even though I use York as a vehicle to visit with friends from across the country....

What I am trying to say in a roundabout way is that even though it is a “social event”, it can still be a buying event......

Peter

Yes, that’s a very good Question, it’s a place for fun, relaxation, and Learning. It’s a People Hobby, and a great pastime. The York Meets are the very best train and train related gatherings ever assembled in my opinion. It’s a place you can find almost any train engine, accessory, scenery item, information or Whatever? And the very best feature of the shows are The Friends you make along the way. Speaking to the specific manufacturers, Lionel personnel, MTH personnel, Millhouse, Ross, Atlas O, OGR Magazine, etc.,  in person makes for a reason to buy their products. Yes, it’s a Fun place to go, just wear a pair of comfortable shoes. I am planning on going to the April 2019 meet.  Happy Railroading...

I consider every meet or show to be a social event.  My hobby budget is limited, so though I look for bargains, the total savings isn't really that much.   I go to see old friends, meet online friends for the first time, and get in on conversations with new friends.  I also just like seeing trains running or static too even if I know I could never own a such and such locomotive.  

First York was 1989.  I remember it as unfriendly and very focused on selling.  Impression was that everyone was in a hurry and suspicious that somebody else was going to score a hot item before they did.  That was when my ex-wife started using the term "train a-holes" (she didn't hyphenate it ), and I couldn't argue with her.  As the years have passed, the bloodthirsty acquisition has subsided, and it's nice to spend time just visiting with folks.  Going to York is shorter, less costly, and more focused than conventions - I like that.  

Many folks make an interesting point about sufficient sales.  I saw a lot of stuff leaving the halls, including some that went into my trunk, so I hope it continues for awhile.

Any foot traffic is better than no foot traffic.  All increased foot traffic is better than less foot traffic.

Shows die b/c people stop showing up....not b/c people stop buying.  And York is still one of the coolest places and ways to buy O Gauge model trains.

Mallard4468 posted:

First York was 1989.  I remember it as unfriendly and very focused on selling.  Impression was that everyone was in a hurry and suspicious that somebody else was going to score a hot item before they did.  That was when my ex-wife started using the term "train a-holes" (she didn't hyphenate it ), and I couldn't argue with her.  As the years have passed, the bloodthirsty acquisition has subsided, and it's nice to spend time just visiting with folks.  Going to York is shorter, less costly, and more focused than conventions - I like that.  

Many folks make an interesting point about sufficient sales.  I saw a lot of stuff leaving the halls, including some that went into my trunk, so I hope it continues for awhile.

As the Greenberg Pocket Price Guides (and the totally bogus numbers listed in them) have fallen out of everyone's back pocket, the shows have gotten much friendlier.

eddie g posted:

I have been going 41 years, & it has always been a social thing . 166 days to York week.

I want you to know that I had not planned to go in April. BUT, if you're going I'll be going. Yes it is social. At most I get to see many of the participants a maximum of twice a year.

It is fun to hunt for that one obscure item on your wish list. If you find it, great. If you don't, maybe next time.

Allan Miller posted:

York is not a money-maker for OGR in any way, shape, or form. We are there because we are an information source for many in our hobby and we do our best to spread the word to those who may not know about us yet; to attract potential new readers and advertisers; and to "fly the flag" promoting model railroading as the great hobby it is.

I personally consider it a "social event" because I enjoy meeting with old friends there and hopefully making some new ones, not to mention the fact that my year-old grandson is already going to someday inherit a huge amount of trains and I really don't need many more. However, that fact does not keep me from making new purchases at York and elsewhere. We only get one shot at existing on this insignificant planet, so might as well have fun!

Yet Rich states going to the Amherst show in January is a money loss for OGR And will no longer attend.  You state the same For York.  I would argue you are preaching to the choir at York as there really isn’t any one new so to speak and everyone already knows OGR.  As for the Amherst show you have young families, young boys and their fathers new to the hobby checking out what there is for trains that have never heard of OGR.  So where is the money better spent?  Sorry to side track the thread, just trying to understand the logic?  

This was my wife's and I 13th straight trip to York. I go to see people I deal with as well to buy different items. I saw more people carrying out packages than ever before. What I've learned at York about the hobby is great. New things from laser cut buildings to alluimium turn tables to the ultimate improvement to my layout the TMcc buffer that Gunrunner John has produced. This item is the best thing that has happened ever for those guys with large layouts. I'm new to York but sure enjoy it ,

Farmerjohn, you hit the nail on the head, your layout has come alive with the new TM Buffer, and soon, I will have my Buffer up and running. Great people, lots of trains to see, lots of Product Knowledge from our favorite Manufacturers, and the best part, meeting the folks that make our Hobby Great.  

This was my 68th straight York and yes I still go every time because of friends and trains. It has changed over the years but the reason has not changed, it's all about the trains and friends. 

Attendees meeting up and socializing does not mean they don't buy trains. Although my buying has slowed does not mean I have stopped, I'm 71 and having the time of my life and yes that includes York. 

Dave

I have only been to one York and it was spring of 2017. I really enjoyed walking around in the halls that had older stuff. My only purchase was the 3 piece B&M GP set. Still haven't run it lol. It was new in box and seemed to be a good deal. ( about $100 less than on ebay ) I'm hoping to have a layout soon. But to me yes it was meeting up with others but also I was there to buy. I didn't buy much but I got to see what it really was about. I think it's a great venue for those who can get there. I would like to again but bring lots more $$ as I did see some good prices and some that where not so good. But all in all it's a great place to find that one item you can't find. 

I'm a loner. I do share my railroad with two other blokes and I do go to the local show over here every year. If I went to York it would be to buy things I have been to the Guild O scale show in England a few times but again its mainly looking at the great layouts I do very little socialising outside my family I have found they are more important than having endless friends (I have a large family). I admire blokes who have made life long friends through Model Railroading and I have joined the local club over here for about the third time because the president happens to be one of my friends and also is an operator on the railroad. Everyone has their funny quirks, I'm a West Aussie enough said!

Roo.

Oh my gosh! I got home Sunday afternoon and I’m still tired. It was total nonstop action from the time I arrived Tuesday afternoon until late Saturday night. Everywhere I went I saw friends and met new friends. Did some train watching in Harrisburg with a childhood friend on Wednesday. Attended social activities before, during and after the Halls closed each day. Got very little sleep. Tailgated for lunch on Friday with my cousins and visited with my daughter before I came home. Got two hours sleep Saturday night before I had to be at the airport to come home. I even got into a conversation about the York Meet and model trains with the other two people in my row on the flight home.

And in the Halls I purchased nine locomotives, five freight cars and four Miller Engineering signs from a bevy of vendors and dealers. It’s their fault!

So yeah, the York Meet is a social and buying event for me!

I think the meet is both. Buying and socializing. I think the trains is what brings everyone together and the socializing is a byproduct of the the trains. It’s both for me as well. 

superwarp1 posted:

Yet Rich states going to the Amherst show in January is a money loss for OGR And will no longer attend.  You state the same For York.  I would argue you are preaching to the choir at York as there really isn’t any one new so to speak and everyone already knows OGR.  As for the Amherst show you have young families, young boys and their fathers new to the hobby checking out what there is for trains that have never heard of OGR.  So where is the money better spent?  Sorry to side track the thread, just trying to understand the logic?  

To tell you the truth, if I had my choice and if we had lots of time, staff, and $ to spread around attending events, I would probably lobby for spending it to attend Trainfest in Milwaukee and similar shows. None of these events--train meets or train shows--are ever real revenue generators for publishers, but that "choir" you mentioned is an important one, and the TCA Eastern Div. York Meet traditionally has the largest of the choirs that support our efforts, not only through subscriptions and advertising, but also in terms of providing content for the magazine and in helping to spread the word about the hobby via some of the hobby's foremost practitioners. It would be great to have the resources to participate in a good number of events, but. . .well. . .the real world intrudes.

I see things a lot different on the social aspects of York. I think the "gang" is a little difficult to infiltrate, not that I even care too.

I am a lone wolf and a genuine nice guy. Yes, I am a published author in OGR and also in that other one too. Heck, Allan and me will be working on a few articles hopefully to be published in 2019.  Over the years, I have introduced myself to many folks at the show (even some of you guys) but that is as far as it goes. When I see them again and address them by name, I just get a blank stare. I remember them but they never remember me! That is OK.

My wife and I attend York every year and have been since 1989.

For the past few years, we walk around to all the halls, buy a lot of stuff, have a snack and then leave.

Donald

3rail 2 posted:

I see things a lot different on the social aspects of York. I think the "gang" is a little difficult to infiltrate, not that I even care too.

I am a lone wolf and a genuine nice guy. Yes, I am a published author in OGR and also in that other one too. Heck, Allan and me will be working on a few articles hopefully to be published in 2019.  Over the years, I have introduced myself to many folks at the show (even some of you guys) but that is as far as it goes. When I see them again and address them by name, I just get a blank stare. I remember them but they never remember me! That is OK.

My wife and I attend York every year and have been since 1989.

For the past few years, we walk around to all the halls, buy a lot of stuff, have a snack and then leave.

Donald

Donald, if I ever see you there I will introduce myself. I have met a bunch of people at York but I never seem to run into them ever again. The friends I see there are friends I have that are into trains that live in my area. The only person I ever met there and saw there many times was the late Owen Sturm (I apologize if I spelled his last name incorrectly). As many here can attest to Owen was a super awesome guy who had a real love and passion for the hobby. If you had ever introduced yourself to him he would never forget you like the people you refer to. Hopefully, I will run into you in April. 

I wish I could enjoy the "social" aspect of York, but since my hearing has been going downhill for the past 20 years, it is very difficult. Even with expensive state-of-the art hearing aids, being in a room with a lot of people talking, is bedlam to my brain. I'm best doing one-on-one in a quiet room. You can imagine why being on this forum (and others that I belong to) is so important to me. Oh well, at 76, I have little to complain about, thank heavens.

My own opinion is that the social aspect adds to the bottom line, not detracts from it.   When folks are having a good time socializing they are more inclined to make an impulse (or unplanned) purchase.   Face it, we've all come home from York with items we didn't plan on buying until we came across it in one of the halls and usually it was offered a price that made us say to ourselves "well I can't pass up a price like that".  

If there wasn't a social aspect to York, I imagine there would be a noticeable drop in attendance.  

-Greg

KD - Seeing Millie and Daisy is the highlight of my stay at York! Can't thank you and Deb enough for bringing them by to visit!

3rail 2 posted:

I see things a lot different on the social aspects of York. I think the "gang" is a little difficult to infiltrate, not that I even care too.

I am a lone wolf and a genuine nice guy. Yes, I am a published author in OGR and also in that other one too. Heck, Allan and me will be working on a few articles hopefully to be published in 2019.  Over the years, I have introduced myself to many folks at the show (even some of you guys) but that is as far as it goes. When I see them again and address them by name, I just get a blank stare. I remember them but they never remember me! That is OK.

My wife and I attend York every year and have been since 1989.

For the past few years, we walk around to all the halls, buy a lot of stuff, have a snack and then leave.

Donald

I'd be happy to meet up some time, Donald.  I really like your layout, motive power choices, and really enjoyed both articles about your layout.

Granted, you're apparently a Corvette Guy and I'm a Chevelle Guy......  

So I go to meet an ever growing list of friends. Usually deliver a few new trains there, and then fill the car up with more. Almost to a person, all the folks (couple of dozen) that I met went home with a significant purchase. So why not both - socialize and buy? Had so many folks to see that the time went super quickly.

Jim

Yes, I believe York is a social event disguised as an AWESOME train market!  Not much to add to what's already been said.....yet I do wish more folks would add their "OGR FORUM  handle" on the name tag.  I think "SIDEROD" started this....and it has led to M O R E train friends recognizing each other and great memories. Also proves I'm just a skeptical type of grouch.

.

Allan Miller posted:

superwarp1 posted:

Yet Rich states going to the Amherst show in January is a money loss for OGR And will no longer attend.  You state the same For York.  I would argue you are preaching to the choir at York as there really isn’t any one new so to speak and everyone already knows OGR.  As for the Amherst show you have young families, young boys and their fathers new to the hobby checking out what there is for trains that have never heard of OGR.  So where is the money better spent?  Sorry to side track the thread, just trying to understand the logic?  

To tell you the truth, if I had my choice and if we had lots of time, staff, and $ to spread around attending events, I would probably lobby for spending it to attend Trainfest in Milwaukee and similar shows. None of these events--train meets or train shows--are ever real revenue generators for publishers, but that "choir" you mentioned is an important one, and the TCA Eastern Div. York Meet traditionally has the largest of the choirs that support our efforts, not only through subscriptions and advertising, but also in terms of providing content for the magazine and in helping to spread the word about the hobby via some of the hobby's foremost practitioners. It would be great to have the resources to participate in a good number of events, but. . .well. . .the real world intrudes.

I'm glad that you see the value in being present with the folks at York.  You will sell a few videos and maybe add a subscriber or two, but the real value is connecting with people.  I don't think the bean counters at Lionel are paying attention to this aspect of having a presence at York.

Allan Miller posted:

superwarp1 posted:

Yet Rich states going to the Amherst show in January is a money loss for OGR And will no longer attend.  You state the same For York.  I would argue you are preaching to the choir at York as there really isn’t any one new so to speak and everyone already knows OGR.  As for the Amherst show you have young families, young boys and their fathers new to the hobby checking out what there is for trains that have never heard of OGR.  So where is the money better spent?  Sorry to side track the thread, just trying to understand the logic?  

To tell you the truth, if I had my choice and if we had lots of time, staff, and $ to spread around attending events, I would probably lobby for spending it to attend Trainfest in Milwaukee and similar shows. None of these events--train meets or train shows--are ever real revenue generators for publishers, but that "choir" you mentioned is an important one, and the TCA Eastern Div. York Meet traditionally has the largest of the choirs that support our efforts, not only through subscriptions and advertising, but also in terms of providing content for the magazine and in helping to spread the word about the hobby via some of the hobby's foremost practitioners. It would be great to have the resources to participate in a good number of events, but. . .well. . .the real world intrudes.

Go to Trainfest anyway!

I am not a people person; l go for the trains, and due to the passing years, many of the people with my interest l did know, have passed on.  I have "regained" my childhood trains so want to move on from those to the new and different (prototypes, not technology, and this puts me in the, perhaps small, minority) So recent Yorks have been disappointing.  Now it is more of a sightseeing trip, to eat at different or favored restaurants and find something historically different in the Amish country. No new trains makes for less reason to attend.

redjimmy1955 posted:

Yes, I believe York is a social event disguised as an AWESOME train market!  Not much to add to what's already been said.....yet I do wish more folks would add their "OGR FORUM  handle" on the name tag.  I think "SIDEROD" started this....and it has led to M O R E train friends recognizing each other and great memories. Also proves I'm just a skeptical type of grouch.

Uhh...  Been doing it for a long time.