'J' auxillary water tender

Here's a nice picture that answers your question... hatches forward. Placing the hatches back-to-back likely makes filling easier. BUT, there's no hard and fast rule. There are also pictures of the 1218 on the web with the hatches to the rear.

The backup light is only on when needed. See below.

Additionally the mth tender (at least the newer ones) have the electro coupler on the rear end and the tether receptacle on the front end.

Paolo posted:

Additionally the mth tender (at least the newer ones) have the electro coupler on the rear end and the tether receptacle on the front end.

Are you talking about an AUXILIARY tender, or the main tender?

the OP is asking about Auxiliary tenders.

do the MTH AUXILIARY tenders have a tether?

Doug

Yes the auxiliary tender. The main tender has a tether stuffed inside which can be pulled out once you take off the shell. the tether controls the coupler and lights on the auxiliary tender.

I'm at work, but you can pull the manual for the auxiliary tender from mth to see 20-3619. Not sure if the older ones have this. this is current release.

If this is of interest can take a picture tonight.

Paolo posted:

Yes the auxiliary tender. The main tender has a tether stuffed inside which can be pulled out once you take off the shell. the tether controls the coupler and lights on the auxiliary tender.

I'm at work, but you can pull the manual for the auxiliary tender from mth to see 20-3619. Not sure if the older ones have this. this is current release.

If this is of interest can take a picture tonight.

My aux tender is 20-3126 which has an electro coupler on the hatch end.  There is a wiring harness with a switch along with wire nuts and ty wrap in the box and instructions.  I read the directions quickly and seems you are cutting the regular tender coupler and light and extending them to the aux tender.  Only problem I see was that the aux is now permanently tethered to the regular tender which could be a problem in derailment tugging on wires.  Plug instructions are talking about repositioning the 9V battery and unplugging things, PS2 and before.  But of course my PS3 J has LED backup lamp while this "old" aux tender has incandescent lamps (poof and magic smoke).

But since I run consists and don't do uncoupling as a rule I will leave well enough alone. 

But I would be curious how the wire harness etc works, and how many operators have used this harness setup. 

One photo with the water hatch to the rear. Aux. tenders could be run either way.

Were the tenders directly connected in such a way that the locomotive would draw water from both tenders at once (kind of like having a single tender twice as big as normal), or did there have be a manual switch-over to the auxiliary tender supply once the main tender was nearly emptied?

B Smith posted:

Were the tenders directly connected in such a way that the locomotive would draw water from both tenders at once (kind of like having a single tender twice as big as normal), or did there have be a manual switch-over to the auxiliary tender supply once the main tender was nearly emptied?

Generally, the aux tenders are piped through flexible hoses to both the right and left sides at the rear of the main tender. Since the aux tenders have connections at both ends, it doesn't/didn't really matter which end is/was connected to the main tender.

Yes, in most cases the water keeps equalizing between the aux tender and the main tender as water is used for the locomotive. This assumes that the big ball shut-off valves are always open when the aux tender is connected to the main tender. Also, since their are no longer any big water spouts in service, the tenders are filled through 2 1/2" firehose connections on either side.

The hatches up on top are not used to put water in the tender. That's done with a 2.5" fire hose connected to fittings installed at each corner of the tender down at the bottom. Since there were matching hoses for air and water on both ends of the tank, it did not matter which way it was pointed. The hatches are only used by the crew to dump the water treatment chemicals into the tank.

There is a storage room built into one end of the A-Tank. The water chemicals, pin grease, ladders, buckets, etc. we're all stored in it. When we used this tender behind the 765, we tried to get it turned so that the "garage" was forward and right behind the 765's tender. It made things easier when servicing the engine when it was set up this way. Depending on where and how this A-Tank was delivered, we were not always able to have it pointed this way. Consequently, there is no "right" or "wrong" direction to run this A-Tank.

We usually ran with the water valves open between the tanks, so the two tenders behaved as one large tank.

rrman posted:

Have the MTH auxiliary tender but wonder which way to orient it in consist.    Is it with the engine tender and auxiliary tender water hatches next to each other (seems logical), or with auxiliary water hatch farthest from tender and  closer to freight/passenger cars.  Can't find any 611 photos that give a clue.  The MTH model has always-on backup lights at each end, so guess the tender could run either direction and be protypically correct.  On real 611 'J' consist, is the auxiliary tender backup light always on, or does it light only during backup moves?

The auxiliary tanks used by the N&W in the steam era were mostly converted from class Z 2-6-6-2 tenders, and did not have a separate space from the water compartment. These were used only behind freight locomotives, not behind passenger locomotives. One of these was used behind 4501 in the 1970s, but was scrapped in the 1980s. 

In the excursion era, three different auxiliaries have been used behind 611.  All three had the coal space converted to storage for tools, lubricants and water treatment. Standard procedure in the 80s and 90s was to position the auxiliary with the storage space closest to the locomotive, so the water hatch would normally be to the rear. But I do have a few photos in which the auxiliary is operating with the storage space to the rear.

The tender (numbered 220166 per N&W practice) from L&N 2-8-4 1984 was converted to 611's first auxiliary in 1982. It was used behind 611 until 1987, and in 1989 was donated to the Indiana Transportation Museum after being used behind NKP 587. This tender had a Tuscan red stripe like 611's tender. This is the tender in the NWHS photo Jim posted.

After the NRHS convention in 1987, 611 went into the shop for an overhaul. When it re-entered service in 1988, it used the auxiliary that was from L&N 2-8-4 1975, and numbered SOU WT53 from 1977 to 1988. This tender was used behind T&P 610 (1977-1981), CPR 2839 (1979-1980), C&O 2716 (1981-1982), and NKP 765 (1982) with its coal bunker intact. In 1984 it was 'streamlined,' painted green, and used behind SOU 4501 in 1984-85. From 1988 to 1992 it was painted all black with no stripe, and numbered 250002. In 1994 it was painted all Tuscan red. This tender was sold in the 1995 auction and has been used behind MILW 261 since then.

The tender that has been used by NKP 765 and N&W 611 while operating on NS in the past few years is one of two L&N 2-8-4 tenders converted for use with C&O 614 in 1980 (numbered 614B), purchased by NS in 1987, numbered 220106, and assigned to N&W 1218. The water hatch is noticeably taller than the hatches on the other two tenders. It was also used behind 4501 in 1991, and behind 611 in 1993 and 1994. It was painted all black with no stripe from 1987 to 2014. At some point it was renumbered 250001. In 2015 it was repainted with a red stripe for use behind 611. This is the tender in Tom's photo.

For the record, the VMT owned tank - used behind the NKP 765 since 2011 and the 611 since 2015 is numbered 250001.

FWRHS is working on its own auxiliary tank - out of service since 1994 - for a return to service in 2017.  FWRHS liked the "garage" on the 250001 so well that it is being copied on its own tank.  You lose about 1,000 gallons of water but it is worth it to keep those nasty water treatment chemicals out of the tool car.

John Craft posted:

In 1993 it was painted all Tuscan red. This tender was sold in the 1995 auction and has been used behind MILW 261 since then.

Actually this tank did not get painted Tuscan until 1994. It's debut I believe was at the NRHS convention  Photo's of this tank are not easy to come by as it did not run the entire season.   

B&O946 posted:

John Craft posted:

In 1993 it was painted all Tuscan red. This tender was sold in the 1995 auction and has been used behind MILW 261 since then.

Actually this tank did not get painted Tuscan until 1994. It's debut I believe was at the NRHS convention  Photo's of this tank are not easy to come by as it did not run the entire season.   

Oops, you're right - I misread my chart.

I have photos from June 1994 where 611 is using the third tender (250001). It looks like the first use of 'WT53' in Tuscan was the 611 / 1522 doubleheader from Birmingham to Atlanta on June 24th. (1522 is using 250001, 611 is using WT53.)

Both tenders accompanied 611's train for at least part of 1994, though only one would be in the consist for excursions.

OGR Webmaster posted:

The hatches up on top are not used to put water in the tender. That's done with a 2.5" fire hose connected to fittings installed at each corner of the tender down at the bottom. Since there were matching hoses for air and water on both ends of the tank, it did not matter which way it was pointed. The hatches are only used by the crew to dump the water treatment chemicals into the tank.

I assume that the 765 or 611 crews etc have to pay the fire and water departments for the time and equipment as well as gallons of water.  Doubt its gratis.  Part of the per hour charge just like for coal and oil supplies. 

Curious what the average per hour cost is to run a steamer, if that is public knowledge.

rrman posted:

OGR Webmaster posted:

The hatches up on top are not used to put water in the tender. That's done with a 2.5" fire hose connected to fittings installed at each corner of the tender down at the bottom. Since there were matching hoses for air and water on both ends of the tank, it did not matter which way it was pointed. The hatches are only used by the crew to dump the water treatment chemicals into the tank.

I assume that the 765 or 611 crews etc have to pay the fire and water departments for the time and equipment as well as gallons of water.  Doubt its gratis. 

Surprisingly, in most towns & cities the water is indeed "gratis". Sometimes the fire department does shop up, and the 50 dollar tour of the cab and some well placed steam hats are gratefully accepted. 

I remember when the 4449 New Orleans Worlds Fair Daylight was on display in San Francisco for a few days, parked right next to the SP commute passenger station (1984). After a few days of display, we figured we had better take on water prior to the next morning's departure. There was a fire hydrant across the street in the warehouse district, so I went over to open the hydrant and flush the rust & sediment out. I'm standing next to the slightly opened hydrant for a good five minutes or more, watching the dirty water run out on the brick paved street, when a San Francisco Fire Department vehicle races up, screeches to a stop, and a guy in a white officer's shirt steps out, and asked me, "What do you think YOU are doing?". I respectfully told him that we were getting ready to take water for the steam locomotive, and wanted to make sure the water was nice and clean. With a strange look on his face, he says, "WHAT steam locomotive?????". I pointed to the Daylight & train parked across the street, behind him. He turned around and was completely stunned! After making small talk, I walked him over, and put him up in the cab, and sent one of the guys back to get him a Daylight hat. When he climbed back down on the ground, he asked if we needed any assistance, and I told him we even have our own hose, so we should be fine. I then thought real fast, and told that he if he wanted to have some of his crew drop by for a "visit", we would give them the 50 dollar tour of the cab. He walked away and was talking into his radio, and with in 15 minuets all kinds of fire fighting equipment showed up, and we met a lot of really nice members of the San Francisco Fire Department.

Part of the per hour charge just like for coal and oil supplies. 

Curious what the average per hour cost is to run a steamer, if that is public knowledge.