Just as all running smoothly, then SWOOSH @#$%&#$%&@

No need for an electrical engineering degree. I looked at the picture of your layout in another post. I can't really see the power that well.

If you could sketch a scribble of the wiring diagram in paint and post it here, you would be sure to get the assistance to correct it. (if something is mis-wired)

Looks like two Z-750's ?

Just some thoughts:

All of the commons (black on transformer) can tie together.

Check the isolated blocks to ensure the transformers are not both feeding a loop.

Unplug the transformer from power and re-plug.

Try one transformer at a time to confirm your wiring for that power supply.

Two 1000 bricks and controllers.  Replaced switch at top of town section to connect with horseshoe on long run.  Otherwise layout the same.  I have decided that all manufacturers' switches are duds.  I have a lot of money invested in them, but think I will start over and do separate runs for different trains.  If I can avoid all switches I will.  They are a pain.  I may just give up.  Except for some very neat rolling stock, the model (toy) train manufacturers leave a lot to be desired.  Not very good stuff!

Just a guess. When the trains crossover adjacent power districts,the rollers put the 2 transformers in parallel. When this occurs transformer sine waves are different and both are going to the trains. Looks like 2 unlike transformers are used,cant be sure from pics. This could possibly confuse or damage the train electronics or the transformers themselves. Paralleling 2 transformers is not usually a good idea,especially if they are not alike or out of phase. If not already done you also need spike suppression adding TVS devices to the loops.

Dale H

Hi Bob,

Power the switches using the 14v accessory voltage method and you will find improved performance and reliability.

Switches add interest and fun to layouts. Just employ them differently in the separate power districts or loops.

Using a buss wiring system on any layout reduces the spaghetti and makes it easier to distribute power.

Use eight position terminal strips for your layout.

Check this out Train Layout Wiring by Jan a, forum member. Review all of the sections. It's a quick read and will make a lot of sense now that you have had a "learning experience".

The link in Dale H's signature also provides a lot of helpful references, many posted by Dale.

Dale,

Both transformers are MTH Z1000s, and they should be in phase as they are both plugged into the same power strip.  There is also a block between both spurs to the separate track systems.  I suppose dual pickups could have caused joinder, but that does not explain the dead spot.

No switch is using track power.  The brass connecter has been removed from all, although all have not yet been connected to aux power and am still throwing some by hand until I get common connected all around layout.  There are a total of seven O42 switches in the layout.

"Dale,

Both transformers are MTH Z1000s, and they should be in phase as they are both plugged into the same power strip.  There is also a block between both spurs to the separate track systems.  I suppose dual pickups could have caused joinder, but that does not explain the dead spot."

They are still,I assume, set at different voltages. These I think put out chopped sine waves waves,shaped differently at different voltage. They are in parallel whenever a car with dual rollers runs from run section other connected by a 22 gauge wire in the car.

Better off running the trains on one transformer or separating the blocks with relays to avoid paralleling.

Dale H

Bob,

The fact that the power supplies are both(all) MTH does NOT guarantee phase.  As I recall both MTH and Lionel have had power supply phase issues because wiring was reversed at production.  There possibly could be a phase issue with one of the bricks and/or controllers. The only to KNOW for sure is a phase check.

As to the dead spot, what track system are you using?  Only track systems suck as Lionel tabular and FasTrack have tied/jumped outside common rails.  Other systems like MTH, GarGave. Ross etc. have isolated outside rails.  With these isolated systems you will have a power isolation at/through switches unless you install jumpers and/or feed both common outside rail from the common power supply output.

Ron

Ron,

The lockon for the smaller oval is on the inside of the MTH realtrax oval. That puts common on inner rail which has no insulation in the switch.  I think the problem is that the center rail (positive) is not continuous through the switch.  I have read previous posts about this problem.  What I don't understand is why there is not positive feed from the other direction as the distance is not too long.  Maybe a loose connection somewhere.

By inner rail, I mean the straight section opposite a LH turnout.

Bob,

The center rail does not have to be continuous through the switch as the engine and lighted cars have the contact rollers separated such that at least one roller has power.

I only see two(2) track power feeds (lock-ons). Those should be common outside rails and AC hot center rail.

There should never be any feeds reversed or having a common on the center rail.

Just for a test, connect those to one transformer. Red for AC power and black for common.

Then I see switches and accessories. Do the same with all of those and connect all of the red (AC power) to the red 14v accessory terminal on the same transformer and all of the blacks (commons) to either black terminal on the same transformer.

The switches should be wired like the diagram for accessory power.

Running multiple trains conventionally requires them to be powered with one transformer or be on separate loops. You can only use the blocks to turn a section on or off, but not power with a second transformer.

One Z-1000 has ample power for what you are running.

There are techniques to compensate for speed differences if you let the city loop train out on the mainline. Also, requires some alert switching to avoid a cornfield meet. But, that's for another day.

Let's get you running reliably.

Moonman,

Obviously where I made my mistake was using two transformers, as you say, the dual pickups on engines and some cars across blocks directs power to both sections.  I did that to control speed of engines as one section required more power than the other.  So, I'll just live with one transformer and controller.  It's like the cop who pulled over the teenager and his girlfriend, and advised him to use both hands while learning, and the teenager asked, "then who'll drive the car?"

Other problem is still a mystery.  When using MTH lockons, one would have to be an idiot to connect positive to any rail other than center.  It would also require some innovative tinkering.  I also follow MTH advise as to placement of lockon to avoid insulated rails at switch from severing common.  As the inner rails of the switch are insulated, the common must be on the outer rail opposite the turnout.

I probably have not verbalized a good description of my track system, but I have read and followed all the instructions from MTH for the switches.  I still think they are a pain in the a**, but necessary.

Bottom line - think there is a bad connection somewhere on the common.

I really appreciate you expert advice.  Aside from the fact I goofed with two power supplies, my problem is probably pretty simple, but an electrical engineering education would be helpful when it comes to electric trains. 

Bob;

An easy way to verify you are losing power is to place a lighted passenger car on that section of track.

If the lights are out, you know you have no power, just roll it along until it lights up and you know where the problem is.

If you have a voltmeter you can test across the break to see which rail is not connecting. Or leave the car on the dead area and use a piece of wire to jump the connection of the center rails, if the lights come on, the center rail is the gap. If they stay off, it's the outer rail.

A simple way to fix the problem is adding one more lockon in the dead section, then it won't matter.

And yes if RealTrax is not correctly assembled and especially disassembled the electrical contacts will get bent out of shape.  Must use a hinging action not just pull them apart.  The same action helps at assembly.

OK.  First, understand that my layout is in my airplane hangar, so I don't live with it.  Took the advice of all the experts on this forum, (1) removed one of the transformers, (2) connected transformer to both loops (without power switch - will do that later), (3) put another engine on small loop to replace the one I fried, and (3) tinkered with dead spot on small loop.

Result:  Engines run continuously on both loops, but don't know how I got continuity on small loop, but did connect a wire to the center rail on first section of track after switch from the opposite direction.  ????

BIG DEAL:  There is power going to both loops, even though I have blocks in between.  So Moonman, not only was power delivered from pickups, but it was also getting through the rails.  I'll have to reengineer the blocks.  Still don't understand how to control speed on engines on separate loops without a second controller.  I'll get to DCS by and by, but got to get the basics down first.

Forgot to say that power across sections is there when one loop is disconnected from transformer.

Forgot to say that power across sections is there when one loop is disconnected from transformer.

That's good news!

You should have lock-ons or power drops every 3'-4' of track. So, your heading in right direction.

There should be continuity of the outside rails, unless you have an accessory activation track. so that's as it should be.

If you have power through the center rail everywhere, that's good too. But, it also means your have power drops on either side of the blocks or the blocks were not set up properly. I would remove them and replace with regular track.

As I mentioned before, you cannot have individual speed control for the trains, but you can make one run slower at the same power level or make it slow down at a location on the track. (electrical engineering)

Have you released the city loop train on to the mainline to test your switching skills?
I assumed from the ugly layout photos that it was in a hangar. Didn't think the chicken wire was for scenicing a mountain. Now that's a fun place to be...with planes and trains.

So, which train is faster? The city loop or the replacement?

Send the fried one to someone for a repair. It looked like a nice loco.

It seems like you've got one hand on the wheel and the other...