K Line #3398 Pacific

They are compressed in size, quite detailed. You won’t be disappointed. JohnA

I have two of the K Line K 3308-0657S Pacifics in Chicago and Alton paint scheme and they are beautiful, but definitely O or O27 in size.  The engine is highly detailed, paint job crisp, and it looks great pulling the six-car MTH RailKing Chicago and Alton O gauge (not O scale) passenger train.  Though the 3308 engine came a part of a KLine O scale six- car heavyweight Chicago and Alton passenger set, the size difference is too noticeable and the engine is too light to comfortably pull the O scale cars.  I picked up a MTH Premier C&A pacific for the O scale cars, and though it is a nice engine, it does compare in looks with the 3308.

Always confusing, especially when hobbyists create definitions that manufacturers never intended. Semi-scale, from the manufacturer’s perspective, never had anything to do with level of detail. The term has always meant “under-scaled” or “smaller than scale.”

Another term used by manufacturers is “traditional sized.” More often, that term refers to greatly compressed models as well as undersized models, though the term broadly refers to all O gauge trains that aren’t truly scale-sized.

The term “compressed” refers to the practice of reducing the size of a model by selectively removing segments of it, like shortening the boiler between the smoke box and fire box to create a differently proportioned, shortened locomotive.

The K-Line Pacific you referenced is not greatly compressed, or at least not obviously so.  I have the Milwaukee Road version and have compared it against prototype photos. It appears just slightly undersized, though it does look a bit squeezed evenly across the major spotting features from the smoke stack to the cab, and with an undersized tender.

If you want a model that captures the spirit of the USRA Pacific that will run on tighter curves, the semi scale version is pretty good. But if you want a true O scale model, then no.

I have a “semi scale” Mikado which I believe has the same engine shell as the Pacific. I checked dimensions against a Western Pacific Mikado which this is supposed to represent and its ten percent undersize. You could say its scale but the scale is 1/53 not 1/48.

As for pulling power the Pacifics and Mikados use a smoke unit that is driven with a piston off the gearbox. It sucks a lot of the power used to drive the wheels. Its has the same motor as the K-Line and later Lionel scale Mikados and will pull twice as many cars if you put in a fan smoke unit and bin the piston unit.

Pete

@Jim R. posted:

Always confusing, especially when hobbyists create definitions that manufacturers never intended. Semi-scale, from the manufacturer’s perspective, never had anything to do with level of detail. The term has always meant “under-scaled” or “smaller than scale.”

Another term used by manufacturers is “traditional sized.” More often, that term refers to greatly compressed models as well as undersized models, though the term broadly refers to all O gauge trains that aren’t truly scale-sized.

The term “compressed” refers to the practice of reducing the size of a model by selectively removing segments of it, like shortening the boiler between the smoke box and fire box to create a differently proportioned, shortened locomotive.

The K-Line Pacific you referenced is not greatly compressed, or at least not obviously so.  I have the Milwaukee Road version and have compared it against prototype photos. It appears just slightly undersized, though it does look a bit squeezed evenly across the major spotting features from the smoke stack to the cab, and with an undersized tender.

If you want a model that captures the spirit of the USRA Pacific that will run on tighter curves, the semi scale version is pretty good. But if you want a true O scale model, then no.

That's an interesting answer. I have a K Line semi-scale Hudson 4-6-4 and it is greatly compressed in length, but much less so in height and width. It's a very nice model with a lot of detailing.

I'm looking for a loco with good detailing and near-scale size, maybe a little shorter than my MTH K4s to match with 15" carriages, which I have pretty much standardised on for the room I have available.

I could also use an O27, traditional size loco to match with a set of Lionel post-War 24xx carriages.

I've just found another thread which lists the K Line semi-scale Pacific as 20", which is 1" longer than the semi-scale Hudson and sounds just in the right range, size-wise.

Sounds like this loco is worth a punt either way.

@Jim R. posted:

1. Always confusing, especially when hobbyists create definitions that manufacturers never intended. Semi-scale, from the manufacturer’s perspective, never had anything to do with level of detail. The term has always meant “under-scaled” or “smaller than scale.”

2. Another term used by manufacturers is “traditional sized.” More often, that term refers to greatly compressed models as well as undersized models, though the term broadly refers to all O gauge trains that aren’t truly scale-sized.

1. True, but it's not always the "hobbyist" who creates the confusion.  Case in point:

2. A few years ago I was interested in purchasing (off eBay) a Lionel PRR E6 #6-28005. I did some pre-purchase research and found it was listed on the Lionel website as "traditional" size. I took that to mean smaller than 1/48, like "0-27". I still wasn't sure and asked about it here. Turned out to be a full size 1:48; I bought it and is a great runner. 🙂

So Lionel itself sometimes is loose with how they describe their own stuff... which makes no sense at all.  🤔

Mark in Oregon

@Rockershovel posted:

That's an interesting answer. I have a K Line semi-scale Hudson 4-6-4 and it is greatly compressed in length, but much less so in height and width. It's a very nice model with a lot of detailing.

I'm looking for a loco with good detailing and near-scale size, maybe a little shorter than my MTH K4s to match with 15" carriages, which I have pretty much standardised on for the room I have available.

I could also use an O27, traditional size loco to match with a set of Lionel post-War 24xx carriages.

I've just found another thread which lists the K Line semi-scale Pacific as 20", which is 1" longer than the semi-scale Hudson and sounds just in the right range, size-wise.

Sounds like this loco is worth a punt either way.

That Hudson is compressed and has no relation to the USRA Pacific. In fact, Hudson models loosely based on the NYC J1e or J3a 4-6-4 prototypes are among the most often compressed models in the O gauge world — probably because Lionel first released a traditional-sized Hudson early in the postwar era that became a very popular model.

According to the prototype drawings in Kalmbach’s Steam Locomotives book, a USRA Light Pacific measures 47.5 feet from pilot to back of cab (not including the roof overhang). That translates into a hair under 12 inches in 1:48 scale.  Tenders varied in size and aren’t included in the measurements.

The Pennsy K4s, by comparison, is about 8 inches shorter.

A NYC J3a Hudson is 54 feet 1.6 inches long plus a nearly 42- foot tender.

The Hudson is obviously compressed, a pity because it towers over the traditional sized, 24xx carriages I have for my O27 "door layout".