K-Line Collector's Club GG-1 -- Odd behavior!

It's strange, alright...any guesses?

Keith L posted:

My K-Line Collector's Club GG-1 (K2780-49121C), which is the conventional-control version, has suddenly adopted an odd behavior.

Until now, when you first powered up, the engine immediately began moving forward, then could be cycled through neutral, reverse, and so on.

Now, when you power up, nothing happens for three seconds--even the headlight doesn't illuminate--then the engine begins moving in reverse. Thereafter, the engine operates normally until it has been powered down for a while. Since this is a GG-1, I've just turned the engine around, and this isn't a big issue. Still, I'd prefer to have it operating normally.

Any ideas about what could be causing this odd behavior?

My only guess is that the electronic e unit has gone bad or has been "tricked" into doing that due to some kind of short.

The delay makes me wonder about a bad capacitor or  resistor leading to one.  Look for swelling etc. on caps, or dark resistor.  Can you check voltages?  Diodes? Maybe you've  lost a leg off rectification.

When does the light come on? Ever?

My thought is one leg pulsing might turn it on & off quickly and by the time voltage rises to run level filling the cap, the pulses may have cycled the chip with lower voltages than it takes to start the motor.

Sounds like the reverse board is experiencing some kind of failure.

Adriatic posted:

The delay makes me wonder about a bad capacitor or  resistor leading to one.  Look for swelling etc. on caps, or dark resistor.  Can you check voltages?  Diodes? Maybe you've  lost a leg off rectification.

When does the light come on? Ever?

The headlight comes on at the same time as the engine begins to move (in reverse).

Here are some photos of the board. (Note that the original K-Line board was replaced with a Lionel board (691-DREU-A) many years ago, and the engine has run fine until now. Also, please excuse my lousy photography.)

My untrained eye doesn't see anything externally wrong with the components on the board. Note the capacitor under the board; it also looks OK to my untrained eye.

That looks like the reverse board for the starter set engines. I tried to use a pair of them in an A-A FT set. neither one would boot up like the other one did and they seemed to boot up differently every time. I am not surprised at how they are acting, but I am surprised that they acted better in the past.

   Well, I had planned on popping mine open to help, but if that's a Lionel now, it won't help much. The caps dont look swollen

I'm glad for you GRJ has found this. I like it better if I have some thing to draw info from and I can't make out the numbering(lionel uses a lot of proprietary numbers too)      GRJ likely knows this board already,.so I'm gonna chime in on the camera a sec. and chill.  Maybe take down the numbers on the center chips on the heatsink. 

Check to see if you have manual focus ability and/or a macro setting (flower/sky close/far) Auto-focus doesn't always work well up close. Another trick is to get focus then crop/zoom. It depends on the camera or phone. (next one, it would be a feature(s) to look for, (manual settings)  The other thing is to brace the camera/hands,plant an elbow etc. and shoot as you calmly exhale... like shooting a gun actually. Small things need absolute stillness.

  Any movement becomes blur unless you really speed up exposure time and open up for more light to compensate.  I don't know if you've used a manual camera before but my buddy just got a phone whose camera graphics are set up like one. It shows arches mimicking  what you'd see looking fwd down the length of a lens; all controls where expected, slide the dot along its arch like twisting a lens or sliding the iris iris open, etc.   Really cool and 15mpx.

Anyhow, better close and small shots can help you see small detail you can't even see by eye, it will help in repair, model better, and take better "fun" photos to share.

I.e. if you know when your shot isn't right, you've beaten 30% of photography already. A decent camera and tips usually gets you another 30%. Time/practice another 30%, and natural skill or luck make up that last 10%     My main issue is I'm shakey and don't like my controls. I have to open menu to make a change; pita.

Top suspect in my mind would be the programmable chip with the label, I suspect that's a PIC processor.  You might try heating and cooling that one on the bench to see if the behavior comes and goes.  If it runs in both directions normally, it's not likely to be the drive transistors, though I've seen them fail on several of these.

Adriatic, thanks for the camera tips. I need them. They will definitely help me take better pictures of this sort of thing.

John,

Does the PIC chip just lift out (pull out?) of the socket it seems to be pressed into?

Are the various PIC chips available from Lionel?

There is the option of replacing the whole board. This one (691DREUA02) seems to be the same, yes?

I have no idea if you could get the chip, my sense is probably no.  I was thinking of hitting it with canned air to cool it, and a heat gun to warm it up, see if either changes the behavior.

What's the label on top of your processor say, it it A02?

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I have no idea if you could get the chip, my sense is probably no.  I was thinking of hitting it with canned air to cool it, and a heat gun to warm it up, see if either changes the behavior.

What's the label on top of your processor say, it it A02?

Cooling the PIC chip with canned air made no difference. I don't think I have any way to heat it (other than setting it on fire!)

The label on the PIC chip does say A02.

Your best option is probably just to pick up the new one from Lionel.