K-line Scale Hudson Sound vs ERR Large Steam Sound

Better is pretty subjective. ERR Railsounds come with a Baby Fatboy (40mm diameter). K-Line comes with a flat 50mm speaker. Non baby Fatboys are 50 mm but I am not sure if the greater height will fit.

The surprising thing to me about scale K-Line engines is the volume. Even with their RS4 boards they are loud. I hit a Aux4 a few times to lower the volume.

With ERR RS and baby Fatboys I am looking to crank the volume up beyond max.

I would suggest trying ERR to determine for yourself if its better. You can always use it in another engine if it doesn't meet your expectations.

Pete

Thanks Pete, I realize better is subjective but I couldn’t think of a better way to ask the question. 

I bought 2 baby fat boys with their mounting ring and baffle during the Lionel parts sale just for this application. Of course the mounting holes don’t line up but it doesn’t look like the height will make it either. I have to check. 

How does the sound file in the ERR compare to the K-line file?

i just might have to try the ERR and see for myself. 

Mike

The ERR sound file is more complex. You will get audible crew talk and better background sounds. Not sure the chuff is any deeper but thats mostly a factor of which speaker you are able to use. I don't really know what the Hudsons whistle should sound like but thats the subjective part. You can hear the ERR sound file at their website to get an idea.

Try it. I would first just use the K-Line speaker. Given the ERR RS board is small and the tender roomy you should be able to move things around to fit your fatboys just a matter a drilling more holes in the tender floor.

Pete

Thanks Pete, that sounds like the best course of action. 

As for the fat boy speaker, the current location of the speaker is right under the small board for the rear tender lights. That setup sits just low enough so the baby fat boy hits it. I’m going to see if it can be moved out of the way. 

Mike

I love the sound of the err large steam this one is mine bought a single fatboy speaker . 

ezmike posted:

Thanks Pete, that sounds like the best course of action. 

As for the fat boy speaker, the current location of the speaker is right under the small board for the rear tender lights. That setup sits just low enough so the baby fat boy hits it. I’m going to see if it can be moved out of the way. 

Mike

Mike, the existing RS boards will be taken out. You would have room for a full size fatboy, maybe two where those boards are. The ERR board is about the size of your existing speaker and would easily fit there.

Pete

You can also make a baffle for most any speaker, I sometimes use things like spray can lids.  I also found that the 2" thin-wall plastic pipe for my central vacuum system is the perfect size for many speakers, I just cut to length and glue a piece of Styrene sheet on top to seal it.  This is a good solution for places where the "standard" baffle is too tall.

I am baffled by the need to construct a baffle in a diecast tender.

I have installed "Fat Boy" type speakers in more than ten diecast tenders using the tender shell as the baffle.

In most cases, I have tried to reduce the size of openings in the tender floor to minimize back wave interference. But I don't think that this is necessary. I get a huge improvement without the baffle.

Most speaker designs call for enclosure volume to increase base performance.

I submit that by using the entire volume of the tender shell you get as much or better base response than using a smaller baffle and you make more room for electronics.

This is not the case in plastic shell diesels or enclosures that have a large "vent." There a baffle on the rear of the speaker or long tube on the front of the speaker may be required. 

Thanks Pete, this would be my first attempt at replacing the existing electronics so it’s uncharted territory for me. So I don’t exaok ow what or how much ofwhatsin there now comes out. 

John, the battle I made after you did the out upgrades is the measuring cap from a liquid detergent bottle. Held in place by pliable caulk rope. 

Thanks guys.

Mike

CTR, not an expert so your theory makes sense but why do many of the cast tenders currently come with baffles?

Mike 

Mike, good idea using rope caulk. Seals well and never hardens.

CTR, using the tender shell as a baffle can work but only if there are zero air leaks.

Lionel's CV Hudson tender has a gasket to seal the shell to the frame. Not many others do.

Plus the volume may be too big to do much good. The ideal volume for a few 2" drivers is actually only slightly larger than a paint can top. This determined by testing and using Thiele Small parameters when available.

Pete

Norton,

Ported speakers have air leaks.

Acoustic suspension speakers do not.

My experience is that you can have small air leaks and you do not need to seal the tender shell to the floor. 

My most impressive installation is in an MTH EF3b. No baffle. Lots of air leaks. Dramatic Base.

The baffle is really a speaker enclosure.  Every speaker has an optimum enclosure size for best performance.  Also there is a difference between ported and sealed enclosures.  Ported are designed to hit really hard at a specific frequency, and are good for the frequency held for a long duration.  Sealed enclosures are better for quick response, better for changing frequencies when played for a short duration.  I personally prefer the sound of a sealed box.  I would hope that speaker baffles that come with upgrade kits were designed for that included speaker, and just not some random housing to cover the speaker.  Speaker enclosure design is a science and art, look at what is done in automotive (I used to work for Rockford Fosgate.).  So you will get a more correct sound with a speaker in the correctly sized baffle then you will in the open tender.  Noticed I said more correct and not better?  I say that because better is in the ear of the beholder.  Our locomotive sounds are a personal preference.

With all that said, I'd agree with what was stated above, get the ERR sound and try it.  If you like it better, use it, otherwise you can go back to the sound it came with.

ctr posted:

I am baffled by the need to construct a baffle in a diecast tender.

Perhaps you should talk to some sound engineers and see what they say.  I'll say that the Vision Line Big Boy has sound equal or better than any other O-scale locomotive I've heard, and I've heard quite a few.  Oddly enough, the Lionel sound engineers seemed to think they needed a sealed baffle to get the best sound in both the tender and the locomotive.

Given the quality of the sound produced, I'll stick with the proper baffle, even in a diecast tender.

Vision Line Big Boy Tender Speaker Baffle

Vision Line Big Boy Locomotive Speaker Baffle

I ordered a ERR Large Steam Railsounds kit. I may need assistance with the installation.

I let you know how it goes. 

Thanks guys,

Mike