K Line smoke unit help

Not exactly the same situation, but maybe whoever addresses Mike's question can help here too:

 

I have a K-Line 4-6-2 (the one made with the old Marx mold - Mine is Erie #3005) with a non-functioning Suethe unit.  My fault, as I used Lionel fluid in it, contrary to the instructions.

 

So the question is, does anyone know who can replace the Suethe with another type, if it is doable?

Sure, if the smoke unit is drawing excessive power, it could cause those symptoms.

 

Hard to say what you have without detailed pictures, but you seem to be on the trail of the cause.

If you have a transformer with an ammeter on it, this would tell you if the engine/smoke unit is drawing too much.  Otherwise you could pick up a small AC ammeter and put it in series with the track power.

 

As to the Suethe smoker, I have an engine that has one and have not been able to exchange it for a fan driven unit because of the restrictive space in the engine, but, in spite of using different manufacturers smoke fluid (including Lionel's) it still works as well as it ever did.  The problem, and the reason that I'd like to change it out, is that the reservoir is so small that I could just about refill it every tr iop around the layout.  The fluid only lasts about 5 or 6 minutes.

 

Paul Fischer

Just noticed:  the engine with the Suethe smoke unit just happens to be the engine that I'm holding in my photo.  It's an older Weaver Models, Milwaukee Road Hiawatha class "A" Atantic, my favorite engine type.  Runs great, sounds good, doesn't smoke too well.

 

Paul Fischer

Sometimes the smoke units in the 3000 series K-Line engines just need a cleaning with a shot of electronics cleaner. The get gummed up easily when not operated frequently.

 

Jim McC.

Ont Sou: 

Thank you for your interest.  How about this?  Do you think the electronics cleaner would be apt to help if I have already shot a lot of WD-40 into it as the instructions suggested?

I can't see electronics cleaner or WD-40 changing the current consumption of the smoke unit.  I liked the recommendation for checking the current.  I use a clamp-on ammeter so all I have to do is find a single conductor in the path and I can measure the current (as long as it's AC).

Anyone with one of these engines care to chime in?

 

CHEERS MIKE

I have the semi scale NYC Hudson. No problems with the smoke unit. I suspect your problem is either a shorted element as suggested above or the replacement element has too low of a resistance. I would disconnect one of the wires going to the smoke unit and measure the resistance of the element. It should be between 18 and 27 ohms.

 

 

Pete

I merely suggested electronics cleaner as a preliminary step in determining if the unit works. WD-40 is a better cleaner than lubricant so it's use should be fine as same as long as it leaves no residue. Neither will effect the fluid consumption but only serves to wake the thing up if it's been dormant for awhile. If there is no reaction then an electrical check is next. Replacements are available for the 3000 series from Brasseur's.

 

Jim McC.

I'd go with Pete's suggestion, I think the smoke unit is drawing excessive current.

Seuthe units in 3-rail models, weaver, early williams brass (and current williams by bachmann) early 3rd rail, etc. typically use a 5 volt or 8 volt variety. The easiest way to tell is to look at the print on the regulator of the pcb the seuthe unit is connected to. 5 volt will say lm7805 and 8 volt will say lm7808. If the reg says lm317 then you will need to power up the loco with the seuthe unit unplugged and measure the voltage of the smoke unit pcb output. If the k-line smoke unit is the fan driven variety then the video we posted on the lionel youtube channel about upgrading Lionel units applies. Thanks, Mike

I believe it is a early K-line board, if it is wire wound. I have had a couple over the years that have gone up in flames.  I have new replacements from Brassuers that  now have a ceramic resistor instead of the exposed nicrome wire version. With or without the attached lamp socket. Is the one you have a green circuit board, 2 inches by 1 1/8th?

Jim McC - Thanks for your help with my situation.  (I guess I may have confused some folks by piggybacking on Mike's post.)

Just a quick update. Chuck you describe my situation perfectly and indeed I have just ordered a replacement element from Dean - hes a great guy to deal with.

 

Just out of interest how does the replacement element perform?

 

CHEERS MIKE

Interesting, I just got a new (obviously old stock) K-Line steamer and it has the wire wound element.  Right now it works fine, but I'll keep this conversation in mind if I ever start having this kind of issue.

John, Did you measure the resistance of this element.  I just got an Original K-line semi scale GS-4 with TMCC in for repair.  The smoke unit is powered from the track and it is shorted (2.9ohms).  What I found is that the hot lead (from track center rail) goes to the element and the ground is interrupted by the switch.  So even though the switch is in the off position, the smoke unit is shorting out via the chassis.  The element burned through the wick and is touching the base of the smoke unit enclosure.  With the resistor out, this measures 5 ohms, which seems low for a unit powered from the track voltage.  This is a horizontal piston arrangement.  Neat unit, but I can see why they run into problems.  G

I didn't measure the element, it was working fine, and AFAIK, still is.  It's in the box in the closet right now.