I have never owned the various modern K-line steam and diesel engines, so I am unaware of how they run and they're overall quality. Since K-line has been defunct for quite some time, would repairs be a serious issue if needed? Would Lionel be a source to have repairs done? Thanks, Mike.
Replies sorted oldest to newest
The "toy train" models ( MP15 , S-2 ) are powered by can motors mounted in the trucks and are very reliable.
@Michael D. Abbott posted:I have never owned the various modern K-line steam and diesel engines, so I am unaware of how they run and they're overall quality. Since K-line has been defunct for quite some time, would repairs be a serious issue if needed? Would Lionel be a source to have repairs done? Thanks, Mike.
Michael,
You may not know this but, other than warranty returns, Lionel isn't even a source for repair of it's own products. You'll have to look elsewhere if you buy used K-Line and need it serviced.
Having said this, you'll find most of K-Line's stuff to be reasonably well made. There were occasionally hiccups but no more than with any of the other manufacturers.
There are a number of places to get K-Line items fixed if the need arises, and many good repair folks here on the forum. The only issue is that in today's world the items would usually need to be shipped to the repair person, and back, but this would also be the case if you were able to use Lionel as your repair service.
I have many K-Line units, both steam and diesel, and am quite happy with them.
Don't be reluctant to buy K-Line. You'll generally be satisfied with it.
Mike
Lionel never 'owned' K-Line. It licensed some product for a period of time.
I own 5 k line locomotives, bought all 5 on the used marked and never had a problem with them. If I ever do have a problem, my local repair person will do the repair.
@Bill DeBrooke posted:Lionel never 'owned' K-Line. It licensed some product for a period of time.
Actually, Lionel purchased K-Line in 2006, or so they said at the time. However, it was a convoluted deal with Sanda Kan in the middle of it. Much of the product line tooling was still owned by Sanda Kan as I recall.
I have many K-line diesels and a few steamers. All are well made and good runners. All are conventional control. The diesels have 2 can motors in the trucks and they are jack rabbits. I have re-wired all of mine in series and they run much better.
Bob
I disagree, Lionel entered into a marketing agreement with Sanda Kan to utilize K-Line tooling for the “K-Line by Lionel” products because Sanda Kan owned the tooling after the K-Line bankruptcy. When that ended, the tooling was split up among multiple companies including Lionel. To the best of my knowledge, Lionel never owned K-Line.
A lot of semantics here. Maybe Lionel didn’t own K-Line but they have been releasing most all of K-Line’s scale steam engines replacing the TMCC electronics with Legacy. Does it matter who actually owns the dies? Lionel is using them.
Pete
I believe correct information always matters regardless of the subject under discussion.
@Norton posted:A lot of semantics here. Maybe Lionel didn’t own K-Line but they have been releasing most all of K-Line’s scale steam engines replacing the TMCC electronics with Legacy. Does it matter who actually owns the dies? Lionel is using them.
Yep, I don't really have a dog in this fight, so I'll let the group hash out the fine points. 
It was fairly common knowledge that Lionel "owned" K-Line after the dust settled, at least the K-Line name. However, I honestly don't know what went on behind the scenes or who owned what, and it's pretty much a moot point at this time. 
@GregM posted:I believe correct information always matters regardless of the subject under discussion.
I believe, unless you can substantiate your opinion, that it's just another opinion.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:Yep, I don't really have a dog in this fight, so I'll let the group hash out the fine points.
It was fairly common knowledge that Lionel "owned" K-Line after the dust settled, at least the K-Line name. However, I honestly don't know what went on behind the scenes or who owned what, and it's pretty much a moot point at this time.
"Common knowledge" that wasn't true then, isn't true now.
@gunrunnerjohn posted:I believe, unless you can substantiate your opinion, that it's just another opinion.
And that is your opinion, which is okay with me.
****Edited to add that the following is a general statement not directed at Gunrunnerjohn or any other specific individual****
For the record; Atlas bought MTH tooling. Atlas markets products with the former MTH tooling. Lionel bought MTH tooling. Lionel markets products with the former MTH tooling. To say now, or twenty years from now, that either Atlas or Lionel bought MTH would be incorrect. And that's not semantics.
Hmm, acting as an impartial referee here, it sounds as if after K-Line filed for bankruptcy, Lionel picked and chose among the remaining assets and bought an assortment of them, but not the bankrupt entity itself. This is not unusual at all.
Lionel probably bought the trade names, trademarks, and other intellectual property. And, probably leased the particular tooling they wanted. Perhaps after the equipment lease ended, the equipment was sold piece- meal to several companies, and maybe Lionel bought some of it as well.
When a company files for bankruptcy, and another company steps in and acquires substantially all of its choice assets, through purchase or lease, it is common in the bankruptcy and business world to say that the second company bought the first "out of bankruptcy."
So, in a way, both folks are right on this one.
Just my thoughts.
Mannyrock
Michael, the best K-Line came in the yellow and black boxes assuming you are looking for scale equipment vs traditional less than scale items. A few were in the black and white too. Scale steam is well built and detailed as are the F7s, E8s, RS3s, and Trainmasters.
The only issues with scale K-Line are the ones that came with their versions of Cruise Control. That board can die but for most K-Line, ERR has an excellent replacement. The rest of K-Line engines with command used Lionel boards, all readily available and easy to swap out if needed.
Search on the many K-Line threads and you will see most all are pretty happy with their purchases. I know I am.
Pete
I've owned many Kline steamers over the years. (I'm down to two right now), they have been reliable and good runners. My last two Kline steamers are B&A berks. Over the years I've upgraded them. Install fan driven smoke units, better cruise control, railsounds 5.0, John's super chuffer. While not Legacy, they are super close. Check out my You tube channel for a video on the berks.
@GregM posted:For the record; Atlas bought MTH tooling. Atlas markets products with the former MTH tooling. Lionel bought MTH tooling. Lionel markets products with the former MTH tooling. To say now, or twenty years from now, that either Atlas or Lionel bought MTH would be incorrect. And that's not semantics.
For the record: I never said anything about MTH or their disposition of their tooling or other assets. That's not semantics either, that's fact. 
Ok, I am sorry I brought it up.
Well, at least you got a couple helpful responses... 😐 🙂
Mark in Oregon
GregM - As a former college faculty member I'll ask what I used to ask my students: could you please supply the exact source(s) of "For the record..." and other "facts" you have presented here, or are your statements merely picking the fly s..t out of the pepper?
I have quite a few Kline engines and enjoy them immensely. Other than the occasional traction tire replacement over the years they have been pretty much foolproof.
John
@gunrunnerjohn posted:For the record: I never said anything about MTH or their disposition of their tooling or other assets. That's not semantics either, that's fact.
That was not intended solely at or for you.
@modeltrainsparts posted:GregM - As a former college faculty member I'll ask what I used to ask my students: could you please supply the exact source(s) of "For the record..." and other "facts" you have presented here, or are your statements merely picking the fly s..t out of the pepper?
I’m not one of your students. If you can prove me wrong, great, I will accept the correction.
I bought a K line GG1 when issued on a Kline special at $99. This is my only new engine purchase. About 10 years later, the zinc pest attacked two of the truck side parts: not available from K line at the time. I found out Lionel truck side parts would fit and they did. Problem solved.
The GG1 is a good runner, in conventional control running and it works well on 027 curves
Charlie
@GregM posted:That was not intended solely at or for you.
I’m not one of your students. If you can prove me wrong, great, I will accept the correction.
I respect your comments in general but you're not being charged with a crime. Therefore it's not our job to prove you wrong.
If you could supply sources it would go along way toward calming things down, over what is essentially an issue of little importance in the greater scheme of things.
There's enough angst in the world today as it is. Tension over terms, events, and outcomes associated with model railroading defeats the purpose of the hobby, which is generally to relax and enjoy the creativity we all participate in.
Can we agree? Or at least agree to disagree?
Mike
WOW!
@Conductor Earl posted:WOW!
Exactly.
----------
I did want to throw in that - it may have been covered above, but I dozed off - Like "Lionel", "K-Line" covers a wide range of products, from exquisite scale models to mere toys, even silly ones, so I wouldn't buy "K-Line" blindly. I have some very nice K-Line scale equipment. I was a fan.
This thread encourages me to seek a K-Line GOLDEN STATE diesel loco for my still-underway process of buying K-Line GOLDEN STATE passenger cars -- the 13.5-inch, ABS plastic version. I've seen the K-Line ALCO AA GS pair on eBay, but I don't like the "wide open" slot in the pilot. I wonder ... is there a replacement piece that would fill that slot after removing the front coupler?
Mike M. LCCA 12394
@D500, I agree! Fan here too...I don't have any of the fantasy Kline items. I do have both sets of the Santa Fe Map Reefers and the Kline anniversary NYC passenger heavyweights. And some of the Alco sets.
They are a very prized part of my collection.
John
I can only speak of Kline scale steam offerings, as that’s what I’m accustomed to working on…..Kline made what is arguably the finest scale NYC Hudson in die cast. Their scale steam offerings only Achilles heel is the tiny motor that was used obviously for a costs saving measure. However, that doesn’t mean they are not good runners, if you limit your consists, and know the short comings, they’ll live a long happy life. As noted above, Kline cruise can go flaky with out warning, but even that has a fairly simple remedy. I’m not a Pennsy guy either, but the K4 offered by Kline sure is a looker IMO, …..I believe Gary ( superwarp1 ) even double heads his Kline Berks with zero issues,…I’d imagine double heading a pair of Kline scale steamers will definitely improve their pulling power,……
Pat
I own three, two Mikado's and one K4s, K-Line scale steam engines.
I wonder what would happen if I double headed these two engines? A rip in the space-time continuum?
I found this picture of a couple motors from K-Line steam engines in the same folder. Including it here just because I find the different size flywheels interesting.
The motors are from K-Line Cruise engines or kits. K-Line made two kits. One for Hudsons and Mikados and the other for the articulateds. I suspect thats why they are different.
Two Mikados without cruise should run OK together as will two with K-Line Cruise or ERR Cruise just as long as both have identical electronics.
Pete
@Choo Choo Charlie posted:I bought a K line GG1 when issued on a Kline special at $99. This is my only new engine purchase. About 10 years later, the zinc pest attacked two of the truck side parts: not available from K line at the time. I found out Lionel truck side parts would fit and they did. Problem solved.
The GG1 is a good runner, in conventional control running and it works well on 027 curves
Charlie
Charlie, was your GG1 scale length? Just curious.
I too, own a number of K-Line locomotives. All very nice models and I enjoy having them.
Tom
I have four unused K-Line cruise upgrade kits. Two with motors and two that are electronics only. A flywheel is included in the electronics only kits along with a tach reader. I wonder how many motors actually were modified rather than just replaced? That isn’t something I would feel confident doing. I did upgrade both of the pictured engines but used kits with replacement motors.
I have given some thought to possibly using the two spare flywheels on the motors in a LionChief FT diesel but so far a thought is all it has been.
Jeesh, . . . never step into the middle of a fist fight to try to break it up. Your just gonna get a bloody nose.
Mannyrock
@GregM posted:I have four unused K-Line cruise upgrade kits. Two with motors and two that are electronics only. A flywheel is included in the electronics only kits along with a tach reader. I wonder how many motors actually were modified rather than just replaced? That isn’t something I would feel confident doing. I did upgrade both of the pictured engines but used kits with replacement motors.
I have given some thought to possibly using the two spare flywheels on the motors in a LionChief FT diesel but so far a thought is all it has been.
The gears are useful to those of us who replace the motors with something larger. I would be surprised if anyone used the tach sensors or flywheels on other motors. They would be especially difficult to remove and not destroy the tone wheel.
Pete
K-Line, yep, I'm set with my K-Line engines.
OK, I have some others. Two of the K-Line A-5's updated to cruise, I double-head these. I also have the Reading 4-6-6T.
@Norton posted:The gears are useful to those of us who replace the motors with something larger. I would be surprised if anyone used the tach sensors or flywheels on other motors. They would be especially difficult to remove and not destroy the tone wheel.
Pete
If I ever replace one of the currently installed motors with one of the spares, I had planned to lookup who had posted a request for non-working K-Line motors a while back. Don't know off hand if it was you, Pat, or someone else. However, it has been my experience that replacing the motor driver board usually corrects the source of problems. IIRC, I have only replaced the motor during the initial cruise control upgrade of the engines.
Both Pat and I were looking for motors. When a K-Line Cruise board from an engine I installed a K-Line kit goes bad I replace it with Cruise M rather than another K-Line board. The gear on the Hudson/Mikado motors appears to be unique otherwise we would use a gear from another motor.
Pete
Krieglok
The K line GG1 is not scale. More like most Lionel post war toy trains, smaller than scale but bigger than Am Flyer S gauge. Lionel 2046, , Williams F7 and BL2 are about the biggest engines I can run on 027 with Marx 1590 switches.
Charlie
@Choo Choo Charlie posted:Krieglok
The K line GG1 is not scale. More like most Lionel post war toy trains, smaller than scale but bigger than Am Flyer S gauge. Lionel 2046, , Williams F7 and BL2 are about the biggest engines I can run on 027 with Marx 1590 switches.
Charlie
One thing to add about the K -Line GG1; the cab doors are full length. To my knowledge K-Line made the only semi scale GG1 to have this feature. I also have the KCC semi scale GG1 and it is a great puller and a solid performer. Too bad it doesn't have a horn and bell.
Access to this requires an OGR Forum Supporting Membership
