Kadee Conversion - 3d printed pilots for MTH ES44AC

 Thats just fricken cool!

Hi Eric: Excellent exploded view drawings.  What software did you use to create these drawings?

Let me guess: Auto CADD • Auto Desk or Adobe Illustrator. ??????????? 

Cool, no very cool. 

Gary

There are screw mounts on some/most newer MTH shells that MTH uses to mount their fixed pilots to. I believe you're showing that your fixed pilots must be glued in place? That may provide for a superior finish once attached. I also get the fact that your design frees the pilots of load stresses.

 It seems to look good in concept so I can only wait and see how it looks once finished. I do like the idea. So we would have to drill the metal frame to accept the coupler mounts on these? I usually have to cut off the backs of KD coupler boxes to clear the MTH truck tabs. So I usually mount the coupler with the 2 screw holes towards the sides of the KDs.

I hope you can apply the same to the EMD versions which seems to lack a bit on the stock MTH ones. I feel they did their best job on these modern GE versions. The GE AC6000 I got long ago wasn't available with fixed pilots like this was though. I wonder if these would align?

Please keep us posted!

Eric, 

your CAD work is incredible! Have you compiled a list of engines you have made parts for? I'd love to see one if you have. I and others would love to see a post where you list out what engines could be next and or take requests for future work. I would love to see what you can do with the MTH GE 44 tonner 

enginEErjon posted:

Eric, 

your CAD work is incredible! Have you compiled a list of engines you have made parts for? I'd love to see one if you have. I and others would love to see a post where you list out what engines could be next and or take requests for future work. I would love to see what you can do with the MTH GE 44 tonner 

Hi Jon, here are the ones I've done so far:

Williams GP9 (as well as one with a generic mounting interface)

MTH SD90

MTH Great Northern S2 (coupler adapter for the tender)

And now the one in the current thread for the ES44.

MTH SD45 will be next...

The threads above include pics of the finished parts, as well, btw.

I could start another thread along the lines of what you suggest, if folks think that would be worthwhile, but it's not like I'm cranking out something new every week, lol. 

trainroomgary posted:

Hi Eric: Excellent exploded view drawings.  What software did you use to create these drawings?

Let me guess: Auto CADD • Auto Desk or Adobe Illustrator. ??????????? 

Cool, no very cool. 

Gary

The designs are done using Creo Parametric, which I also use extensively on a professional basis. It is a very powerful tool, but not for the faint of heart in terms of either the learning curve or the price tag...

Engineer-Joe posted:

 It seems to look good in concept so I can only wait and see how it looks once finished. I do like the idea. So we would have to drill the metal frame to accept the coupler mounts on these? I usually have to cut off the backs of KD coupler boxes to clear the MTH truck tabs. So I usually mount the coupler with the 2 screw holes towards the sides of the KDs.

To clarify, the coupler mount is intended to be bonded to the chassis, with no drilling or modification required. It can also be drilled and screwed to the chassis using the pilot holes provided, if you want it removable. The body can still be removed in either case. The pilot assembly, once bonded to the body, serves to locate the coupler mount on the chassis. Any combination of the four standard kadee mounting holes can be used to mount the coupler itself.

There are pics of the finished and installed parts in the threads linked above.

Eric,

Just to satisfy my curiosity, how long does it take for you to do one of these fixed pilots?

Will you have the premier es44ac up soon?

Thanks,

Dave

enginEErjon posted:

Eric,

Just to satisfy my curiosity, how long does it take for you to do one of these fixed pilots?

Probably best if I don't think about it, lol...

But since you asked, it breaks down something like this:

• 4-5 hours measuring and modeling the existing chassis and body shell. This is actually a big part of the time involved, but it essential to getting a good finished part.
• Several hours scouring railpictures.net (I have yet to find a good way to do this other that just browsing lots of pics...) and other online sources for photos and projections of the engine in question, for example:
  • http://www.railpictures.net/photo/584099/
  • http://www.railpictures.net/photo/45250/
  • http://www.railpictures.net/photo/86611/
  • http://www.railpictures.net/photo/152581/
  • http://trainiax.net/drawings/1...es44ac-bnsf-ph1b.GIF
• The actual modeling of the parts is probably around 10 to 20 hours, depending on the specific details required. A few component parts like the gladhands can be reused from model to model, but almost everything else is new.
• And then preparing the 3d print assembly, final checks, etc. Probably a couple hours here.

So all told, anywhere from 20-30 hours, I'd guess, depending on the model.

David Minarik posted:

Will you have the premier es44ac up soon?

Thanks,

Dave

If a few weeks counts as soon, then yes.

I want to give this thread a few more days for folks to comment, then I'll finalize and submit the first print job. Once I have that in hand and I'm able to confirm the fit and finish with it installed on the model, I'll add it to the store.

However, that schedule is influenced by an imminent two week vacation for sailing and scuba in the British Virgin Islands.  

Too many hobbies, too little time...

Thanks!   

Eric,

Are these conversion's available?   I have a lead on several 3R units that I would want this conversion before committing to them. 

Well, I have to apologize to Mike and anyone else waiting on these, I got a bit sidetracked by another (epic) model train project. See this thread if you want to read my excuse... 

They WILL get done, because I want them on my own engines! Hopefully soon now, since I am setting up this year's layout starting this weekend.

Eric

Eric,

I need a couple right now. So as soon as your ready!

Really a cool project and I will be checking into that in more detail as I am looking for similar control of my switches.

Eric,  Not only do I have some ES44ACs now waiting for some pilots, I have some SD70M-2's and SD70ACe's.

Well, I'm happy to say the modeling for these is done and they are submitted for fab!

Here are a couple pics of the final design:

Eric

Mike DeBerg posted:

Eric,  Not only do I have some ES44ACs now waiting for some pilots, I have some SD70M-2's and SD70ACe's.

Hah, cool. Have you looked at the SD90 pilots? I wonder if those might also fit the SD70s. My SD90 is a pretty old model, though. Details are in that thread.

thor73 posted:

Mike DeBerg posted:

Eric,  Not only do I have some ES44ACs now waiting for some pilots, I have some SD70M-2's and SD70ACe's.

Hah, cool. Have you looked at the SD90 pilots? I wonder if those might also fit the SD70s. My SD90 is a pretty old model, though. Details are in that thread.

Eric, I have checked they are different enough they will require some modifications.  I can send you a photo if you like?

thor73 posted:

Well, I'm happy to say the modeling for these is done and they are submitted for fab!

Here are a couple pics of the final design:

Eric

 

Eric, Very nice!  Looking forward to this well needed upgrade for 2R and 3RS modelers.   

Engineer-Joe posted:

 

MTH SD45 will be next...

I need to get some of these also. I'm not sure how Shapeways charges for shipping. Is it better to place an order for all of them rather than separately?

Do they charge handling fees?

$4.95 per order, USPS priority.

Update:

I got the first set of parts just before Christmas, and managed to do a fit check over the holidays. I ended up making a few minor changes to the design. First, the coupler cut bar was broken on one of the parts. Shapeways will send replacements for things like that, but I think in this case I may have been asking a little too much of the material. So the cut bar is now a separate part, like the hose assemblies. This has the added benefit that it is replaceable at a later date if it gets damaged (as happened on my GP9). There were also some minor clearance issues between the pilot and the detail wires on the trucks, so I made some changes to improve that.

No real impact on the appearance, though:

I also changed the coupler mount so that it can now either be bonded to the chassis or screwed to the existing bosses on the body shell:

The mounting boss on the truck for the electrocoupler does interfere with a kadee 740 when installed as pictured. I have cut the bosses off the trucks on my other engines, where needed. I like to be able to use the metal gearbox 740 and all four mounting screws. Alternatively, one could leave the truck bosses and shave the back off a kadee 740. This fits fine, and allows the standard travel and swing of the 740, but without the innermost mounting screw. Or finally, take the really easy route and use a 743. The truck boss clears the coupler mount in any case.

I've submitted the updated model for fab, so I'll update again hopefully in a week or so when it arrives.

These are looking very nice!! Looking forward to the finished product- should be awesome as usual! 

Looking great!  So glad to hear the progress and the minor tweaks. 

I have some of the MTH NS Heritage units in 2 rail.  How do I go about ordering your pilots for them?

Thanks

Eric,

Just a side note:  You can easily remove the old coupler mounting boss on the premier 2/3 rail truck by unbolting them.  I only learned this after cutting MANY off. LOL

Thank you for doing this!  I cannot wait to get my hands on a set!

Dave

VGN64 posted:

I have some of the MTH NS Heritage units in 2 rail.  How do I go about ordering your pilots for them?

Thanks

The forum mods have asked that I not post links to stuff on my Shapeways shop, as I am not a sponsor here.

David Minarik posted:

Eric,

Just a side note:  You can easily remove the old coupler mounting boss on the premier 2/3 rail truck by unbolting them.  I only learned this after cutting MANY off. LOL

Thank you for doing this!  I cannot wait to get my hands on a set!

Dave

That is a great tip, and not something I had thought to look into, thanks!

thor73 posted:

VGN64 posted:

I have some of the MTH NS Heritage units in 2 rail.  How do I go about ordering your pilots for them?

Thanks

The forum mods have asked that I not post links to stuff on my Shapeways shop, as I am not a sponsor here.

It's not like it's hard to find anyways. I see the GP9 and SD45 pilots. When will the ES44 pilots be up?

fredswain posted:

thor73 posted:

VGN64 posted:

I have some of the MTH NS Heritage units in 2 rail.  How do I go about ordering your pilots for them?

Thanks

The forum mods have asked that I not post links to stuff on my Shapeways shop, as I am not a sponsor here.

It's not like it's hard to find anyways. I see the GP9 and SD45 pilots. When will the ES44 pilots be up?

Good news, the updated parts should be delivered today!

I need to do a final fit check before I make them available. Unfortunately, I am going out of town in a day, and may not be able to get to them before that, so it will probably be after next week.

Please direct me if I'm in the wrong thread. Went on the Shapeways site and saw N scale models of CNJ Baldwins. If I want to order these in O scale, do I just tell them what size (ratio) I want or do I have to do the engineering? Thanks for any responses.

I just did a search for MTH and he pops up as one of the choices. 

David Minarik posted:

Eric,

Just a side note:  You can easily remove the old coupler mounting boss on the premier 2/3 rail truck by unbolting them.  I only learned this after cutting MANY off. LOL

Thank you for doing this!  I cannot wait to get my hands on a set!

Dave

Dave,

This is good to know. I took a quick glance at a six-axle 3/2 truck and it wasn’t apparent how to “unbolt” the mounting boss. (I also scared up this picture from the MTH site, and again can’t see any mounting hardware).  What am I missing? Is it inside the bottom cover plate?

 I don't remove the 3 rail coupler tabs on the ends of the trucks. I usually cut the end off of the back of the regular KD coupler boxes. There was an engine that had to have the short KD version as the trucks are mounted so close to the ends of the engines that there's less room. I forget which engine that was right this second?

https://kadee.com/htmbord/page743.htm

 I bought a used engine from a member that already had the truck tabs cut off. It seemed like so much more work than just using the right coupler or cutting the KD box.

 I grabbed the closest engines and snapped some pics. The GE's have more room I think?

for some reason? I used the KD 743 short boxed coupler on the GE ES44 that has the most room? First pic.

Second pic is the U28, third pic is another GE with the full sized KD box and the rear cut off.

The SD50 in the last pic has the least of this group. It still fits a full sized KD box with just the rear cut off.

Joe,

I usually trim the standard Kadee box when I want or need to fit a medium shank coupler. But the MTH SD45 is so tight that won’t work. Only a short shank coupler and small draft gear box fits (unless you remove the truck boss). I’ve used 806s on the SD45s, but MTH designed the pilot with the coupler pocket much too low. I want to switch them to an offset coupler to remedy that problem, but the Kadee offset model has a medium shank. I’ve been meaning to cut the truck boss to swap in the new couplers, hence my interest in Dave’s experience. 

RM

Thanks Rich. Now that you mention those, I have 2 of them on deck that I never got to 2 railing! So the SD50 was the closest. It must have a hair more room as it works.

 You can see by your work that the MTH truck is a cast piece so the only thing I can think of easier, would be to cut a small area off the tab with a radius to create the room. I don't know what engine Dave spoke of that would have that tab removable?

 Can you machine off some of the mounting blocks on the stock pilots? I had a MTH engine like that and I remember grinding something to raise the coupler??

If the body is low you could shim it slightly to help?

Edit: I have another BN SD45 that I did convert. I used the KD 843 short box. The difference maybe that I made my own shims and mounted the couplers to the original pilots. So I could adjust the height and how far the box sticks out on mine. It just fits and rubs a bit when handled off of the track in the front only.

It's getting bad around here? I don't know what I did!

I looked at my ES44. It turns out I habe the fixed pilot version. I need a set made for an MTH SD70ACe and a Lionel SD70ACe. They are different than each other with the MTH being utterly hideous.