Kadee Coupler on Pilot of MTH ALCO PA

That sounds like a perfect project for CentralFan1976 but I don't think he has those engines to do the design. They are pretty easy to do, just takes time. You will probably have to make a styrene spacer to fit between the pilot and the frame. Build it so that the coupler screws to the spacer and pilot, and then screw that whole assembly to the frame. Thats how I tackled my MTH F units.

Laidoffsick, maybe I was not clear.  All I want to do is mount Kadee to the pilot.  I am not interested in "fixing" the pilot in place, I am not that abitious.  The layout that I run on has a minimum radius of O-120 so the "swing" of the pilot will be very slight.  But, thank you for the contribution.

Jim,

 

What little I know about those swinging pilots, you just might not be able to affix a Kadee gear box to it, i.e. you may be forced to fix the pilot first, then mount the gear box assembly. Just a thought.

OK well since it's the lead engine, curve radius doesn't matter as it's on the point  it's not coupled to anything, and the fixed pilot with a coupler tucked in tight looks reeeeeeel good. But yes, I know... it quite a bit more work to fix that pilot.

 

The simple way to do it would be just to glue the coupler to the pilot then, if it's only the lead unit. Or you could drill and tap the pilot for the coupler, and then just make sure the screw length is just long enough as not to protrude through the pilot so it can still swing freely.

 

Ho did you mount the Kadees between the units? Possible to mount the front the same way?  

My first thought is to see how much of a shim you'll need to drop the coupler to the right height inside the swinging pilot.  Then I'd see if you can actually screw the shim and the Kadee to the pilot, drilling and tapping the pilot for a 2-56 screw.  When I create my spacers and coupler shims, I draw the center-to-center spacing as 0.460" for the outside ones.

 

I'll have to check my PS1 PAs to see if they are the same.

 

Thanks,

Mario

 

Agreed; I forgot to mention that.  I would use longer screws and cut them flush with the top of the pilot.  Touching them up with just a little paint, if they're noticeable.

 

Thanks,

Mario

Jim if Mario can do the spacer for you, fixing the pilot with a Kadee will be a lot easier work than most of what you have already done

Jim, rather than mount it to the pilot. Which is going to swing anyways. You can easily mount it to the truck. The hole for the coil couplers T bar will accept a 10 32 with a real snug fit. You almost have to thread the screw through. Pick up some K&S brass stock that's 1/2 wide and then drill and tap two 2 56 holes

to mount the Kadee. Then another to accept a 10 32. A couple of washers to to raise it to the proper height and your good to go. On mine. I think I had to eliminate the coupler box lid and screw the box right to the brass stock to get the height perfect. After you drill out the hole and tap it for the screw. Do your final trimming on the bracket with a file. It should rest tightly against the square portion of the truck and once tightened down. This will keep it straight with only one screw. Easy to swap back at a later date if you need to.

 I much prefer fixing the pilot. In this case on my DL 109's. I wasn't sure if it would work on my 072 curves and 21" cars. I use this same method on 0-8-0 steamers for the front coupler. I even have a few made up I can use for a quick fix on a tender till I fabricate up a bracket.

 

 

 

I didn't like the look of the Kadee in the large opening of the pilot. I trimmed off the 2 side holes and modified an Atlas electro coupler box to fit around the Kadee's box. I believe after some tweaking it just rests over the Kadee's box. Far from the prototype but it looks a little better.

 

 

 

I'm on it!

 

I just pulled the non-powered unit apart. We shall see how it goes. 

 

Thanks,

Mario

I want to see Jim's photos      :-)

This is actually going to be A LOT easier than I thought because those holes in the pilot, SFJ, actually are already tapped in the frame for 2-56 screws. And after chasing out the threads the pilot mounts right up.

I'm going to create a coupler shim that uses these holes and will mount the coupler at the correct height. I'm also to use the same coupler shim, albeit thinner, once I figure out how to lower the frame.

Here's some shots...

Jim, the spacer I'll design will be able to just use those holes for the coupler shim, you won't have to mount it to the frame. What I would do is just use those holes to mount the shim to the swinging pilot, and then the Kadee box to it as well. One last thing I would do is run the center hole of the Kadee all the way through to the top of the pilot, drill and tap the pilot to hold the Kadee secure, then file the screw flush to the top of the swinging pilot.

You should be GOLDEN!

Thanks,
Mario

Ok, kid! Here to go!  The easy way to mount a Kadee coupler into the front of an MTH PA pilot, without modification to the pilot or its swinging action.

I've designed the shim so that the 2-56 screw comes down from the top and the 2-56 is keyed in the spacer, so the flat spot is up against the shim and is self locking. You won't have to keep a pair of pliers on it to tighten it down.

All the screws here are 2-56 x 3/8". The nuts are from ACE hardware.



If you want to put the front Kadee farther back, just turn the shim around.

Here's what it looks like on the locomotive. Because the fixed pilot is the same height off the rails, I can use the same shim for both.



Note: I trimmed the mounting tab off the pilot, so it may look different. But it's the factory PA pilot.

Thanks,
Mario

That's terrific Mario!

 

It's amazing that for me personally, I never really noticed the large couplers and big gaps until you guys started changing things a few years ago and seeking more realism with our traditional 3 rail trains. Has been an interesting process and one that I personally can't see ever going back!  

Mario.

 

  That is a PERFECT solution.

I thought it was pretty cool myself.

SFJ, just send me your address.

Sam,

I can help anyway that I can... What do you want to start with?

Thanks,
Mario

So where/what does the PB spacer look like? I'm just curious ?  I'm NOT taking them off the shelf

In just sayin...

The back are just as easy as the front. Same hole in the same spots. They will need to be tapped though, but it was easy.



Just sayin.

Thanks,
Mario

 

I wouldn't suggest pulling them down until we can get a chance to see how to lower them. I don't believe the frames are drilled for the pilots and I know the pilots are not. 

 

first I have to lower the powered A of this set and mock up an interior, then I can add the Lionel PAs on my list, at the bottom.

 

So much to do...

 

Thanks,

Mario

Oh I already know NONE of the Lionel frames are drilled for the pilot. Thats one of the toughest things to do, not only drill & tap the holes, but keeping the pilot centered and straight.