Keep your Legacy controller close at hand!

And that is a prime reason I don't normally double head powered units. I do have a couple passenger trains with two units, but those are programmed to the same channel. However, that does not stop one engine from cutting out, as you noted.

Exactly! And these are brand new Legacy units so it was pretty traumatic to hear that sound.  I actually would prefer the traditional powered/non-powered combination, although I know some people on the Forum hate that.

JamesRx posted:

Exactly! And these are brand new Legacy units so it was pretty traumatic to hear that sound.  I actually would prefer the traditional powered/non-powered combination, although I know some people on the Forum hate that.

You know, I don't "hate" dummies; have a few (I'm mostly steam) - but there is something about looking at an A-A (or whatever) set in which I know both locos are actually being locomotives, instead of one just being a boxcar in drag (in more ways than one). 

I put ERR cruise commander and sound in a pair of Williams subscale FA2 Alcos a few years ago. On a whim, I swapped a powered and a dummy truck so that each unit had a motor (and E'coupler). More wires in the tether (I had to tether for the E'couplers/headlights anyway), but those little things (I use them for switchers) are two (one?) of my favorite locos. And both pull - even if only I know it.

It was just burnin rubber

Hm.  And I thought that with back-drivable gears it would be possible (albeit difficult) to drag a stalled loco along.  If both units didn't have rubber tires, the still-operating unit might sit and spin, but at least it wouldn't trash the gear train to a chorus of expensive noises .

Just once, i would like someone to give me a reason why Legacy doesn't have an OPTION configurable in the loco to "keep going at previous speed and direction until signal is restored."  This should really be the default.  As I go through the use cases, it seems preferable about 90% of the time.  It would solve a lot of headaches.  And the other 10% of the time, the loco is off the rails and loses power anyway.  OR, you just turn off track power, and the loco stops.  If we were using battery power, Lionel's logic would make more sense.  But they are electric trains, after all.

Is there still a "halt" button on the remote?  Does it cut power to the layout?  If so, my suggestion should positively be the default!

Why is that problem possible in Legacy? 

With TMCC the two locomotive have to be entered into a TRAIN to operate together, or they will not run .

Andrew

When I run my scale diesels I use powered and non powered units. I have several dummies that can be used with almost any unit I have.  

I like to run two and three locomotives together but by using only one powered and the rest non powered I have prevented many problems when running powered multi units in the past.

when one powered unit goes out of sync or for one reason stops running there is a chance of you blowing a board or at the least you drag the dead unit till all the traction tires of both powered units are torn off. 

Dave

Dave...I’m with you...one powered avoids possible disasters and looks just as good.

Andrew.....the Legacy AA sets actually come pre-programmed as ENGINE 1...work the same as a lash-up but you address them through the engine key instead of the train key. But either way, it is still possible for one unit to lose the signal and stop while its co-worker struggles on.

Ted S...yes we still have the halt button and that’s what I was scrambling to hit when the lead unit lost power. I like your idea for a carry-on option! But they should also set an alert sound to let the operator know one engine is in carry-on mode...otherwise increasing or decreasing speed would lead to a mismatch between the powered units. Basically having 2 powered units  introduces a risk and there should be some fail-safe system added for this situation.

By the way...the same thing happened once when one powered unit had an internal short. It stopped dead and the other unit tried, unsuccessfully, to pull it along. Same horrible sound! 

JamesRx posted:

...otherwise increasing or decreasing speed would lead to a mismatch between the powered units

I'm afraid I don't understand... I guess you're referring to a scenario where you have two powered locos in a "lashup" or train/consist.  You turn the knob and one loco gets the message to speed up, and the other doesn't.  Is that what you meant?

Under my system the loco that didn't get the message would be going the same speed it was before (a little slower than the lead unit.)  Under the existing Legacy system, if it lost the signal for even a moment it would just stop, producing the scenario in your original post.

I agree with you on two counts.  Yes, if it loses the signal it should make an announcement, flash its lights, etc., to let the human operator know.  That's a great suggestion.  Now we just have to convince Lionel to reverse 25 years of stubborn thinking!  I also agree that any time you run two powered units there's a chance they'll end up fighting each other.

Ted S posted:

JamesRx posted:

...otherwise increasing or decreasing speed would lead to a mismatch between the powered units

I'm afraid I don't understand... I guess you're referring to a scenario where you have two powered locos in a "lashup" or train/consist.  You turn the knob and one loco gets the message to speed up, and the other doesn't.  Is that what you meant?

Under my system the loco that didn't get the message would be going the same speed it was before (a little slower than the lead unit.)  Under the existing Legacy system, if it lost the signal for even a moment it would just stop, producing the scenario in your original post.

I agree with you on two counts.  Yes, if it loses the signal it should make an announcement, flash its lights, etc., to let the human operator know.  That's a great suggestion.  Now we just have to convince Lionel to reverse 25 years of stubborn thinking!  I also agree that any time you run two powered units there's a chance they'll end up fighting each other.

Yes Ted that's exactly the scenario I refer to. In any case, having the engine that loses touch maintain its previous heading would be so much better than having it stop dead! I have only been running with 2 powered units for about 2 weeks now and it has already happened twice.  I really don't want to hear that sound ever again!

I run powered lash ups all the time and only had a problem one time when one engine had a problem crossing a switch which needed replacing.

Perhaps the problem is that the track is not wired properly. There are not enough jumpers for the command control signals to be sent through the rails.

Andrew

The problem with many MU configurations is one locomotive is going in reverse, and if it loses power for a moment, it can reset and be trying to forward.  This is somewhat common on certain layouts with locomotives with only two pickup rollers.

If you lose power, even for a short period of time a loco will reset and stop.  You need to lose TMCC signal for 3-4 seconds, with no partial reception during that time for a reset and stop.  This is unlikely, so changing the signal loss behavior will not help much if at all.  It is more likely power issues are what is causing the MU’d configuration to have a loco being dragged along.   

GRJ, if a loco is setup in reverse mode, and loses power it will not go forward on power restore.  It will go reverse again when powered up.  

Jon

Hmm Jon, we've had that very problem at club outings.  It wasn't my equipment, but they were running normally and then the trailing unit decided it wanted to go it's own way.  Cycling power and starting them up again resolved the issue.

Update! This problem started happening regularly on my brand new New York Central legacy Alco set. The last time it happened the train was sitting on the track stopped I press the button to change direction and when I started the throttle the two engines went in opposite directions!I had already checked the track and connections previously so this time I took a  closer look at the rear unit which is the one that has been losing the signal. Lo and behold when I turned it over I found out that the two pick up rollers on the rear truck do not roll at all! They were both covered in grease and had essentially been acting as a track cleaner for me!