kemtron GP20 info needed

It looks like a Kemtron GP-20 to me . I think you have a KTM GP-35 drive train, and if you look around you should be able to find a gear box.  I use acid cor solder and flux for brass , but do not use it on electrical work.   These kits were made in the 1965 or so era so it is not as detailed as todays , but have fun and welcome to 2 rail brass land.

It looks like Kemtron to me too.    Kemtron never provided mechanisms.   They did include dummy trucks I think.    But they left powering up to the builder.     Both Central Locomotive Works and All Nation provided drive trains specifically for their kits at one time or another.    

You might be able to get a replacement gear from Precision Scale.    I think they provided some of the later USH/KTM units.   

Perhaps you did not display all the parts, but it appears taht one truck is a dummy truck and the other axle for the powered truck is missing?    

And this appears to be an early KTM from the Max Grey era rather than USHobbies.    All the USHobbies units I have seen have Diecast geat boxes that are totally closed top and bottom.    The top which appears open on yours is two halves which screw together on the USH I have seen.   Then a bottom cover is screwed onto the assembly.   There are not open gears or worms.   

If you can't find a gear, you could get a whole new drive train from P&D hobbies but it might cost as much as you paid for the loco.

As for desirable, I don't think they are especially.    Many that show up at shows are poorly and sloppily assembled so they don't draw very high prices.    On the other hand a nicely done GP20 would be somewhat unique.    And if powered and operable might draw 350-500.   I just don't how much interest there is in a GO20 model.

And you should consider, most 2-railers are not collectors in the sense that 3-railers.    Many 2 railers collect models but not antiques or rarities.   To most 2-railers the provenance and original box and paperwork are interesting but add nothing to the value for them.     In other words, an old model is not in most cases of interest to a 2 railer unless it is well enough detailed to compare with newer stuff or is very cheap.    Notice I said most, there are some who do collect antique O scale models.

Those are USH (made by KTM) gearboxes.  There should be a brass cover that slides over the top of the gearbox.  The gears can be found, I probably have quite a few, removed from models I've reworked.

The motor and center tower look like standard USH/KTM.  The universals are not.  They should be replaced.  The entire drive, powering both trucks, would be a fairly easy restoration.

For soldering the body, I like Stay-Brite solder & flux.  I would use a small torch for most, if not all, of the repairs.

Jay

I have one of these kits but nothing has been soldiered, so I will need to start from scratch. At least yours is recognizable. Keep us posted on your progress, plus I need some visuals and tips once I begin to build mines.

Dave

Jay C posted:

Those are USH (made by KTM) gearboxes.  There should be a brass cover that slides over the top of the gearbox.  The gears can be found, I probably have quite a few, removed from models I've reworked.

The motor and center tower look like standard USH/KTM.  The universals are not.  They should be replaced.  The entire drive, powering both trucks, would be a fairly easy restoration.

For soldering the body, I like Stay-Brite solder & flux.  I would use a small torch for most, if not all, of the repairs.

Jay

You are correct, the gearboxes do have a slide cover, it’s current t configuration is a powered back truck with a dummy front truck. I am trying to figure out where to get the universals.

i am fortunate enough to have a solder rework station with several tips for the heat gun as well as the soldering iron. I also have a small torch.

thanks for your advice

luvindemtrains posted:

I have one of these kits but nothing has been soldiered, so I will need to start from scratch. At least yours is recognizable. Keep us posted on your progress, plus I need some visuals and tips once I begin to build mines.

Dave

I sure will, I will share my mistakes as well as the successes. 

prrjim posted:

It looks like Kemtron to me too.    Kemtron never provided mechanisms.   They did include dummy trucks I think.    But they left powering up to the builder.     Both Central Locomotive Works and All Nation provided drive trains specifically for their kits at one time or another.    

You might be able to get a replacement gear from Precision Scale.    I think they provided some of the later USH/KTM units.   

Perhaps you did not display all the parts, but it appears taht one truck is a dummy truck and the other axle for the powered truck is missing?    

And this appears to be an early KTM from the Max Grey era rather than USHobbies.    All the USHobbies units I have seen have Diecast geat boxes that are totally closed top and bottom.    The top which appears open on yours is two halves which screw together on the USH I have seen.   Then a bottom cover is screwed onto the assembly.   There are not open gears or worms.   

If you can't find a gear, you could get a whole new drive train from P&D hobbies but it might cost as much as you paid for the loco.

As for desirable, I don't think they are especially.    Many that show up at shows are poorly and sloppily assembled so they don't draw very high prices.    On the other hand a nicely done GP20 would be somewhat unique.    And if powered and operable might draw 350-500.   I just don't how much interest there is in a GO20 model.

And you should consider, most 2-railers are not collectors in the sense that 3-railers.    Many 2 railers collect models but not antiques or rarities.   To most 2-railers the provenance and original box and paperwork are interesting but add nothing to the value for them.     In other words, an old model is not in most cases of interest to a 2 railer unless it is well enough detailed to compare with newer stuff or is very cheap.    Notice I said most, there are some who do collect antique O scale models.

I do have all the parts, the powered truck was complete albeit ha going from a wire as the only connection to the frame. I took the powered truck apart when I realized it would do six revolutions of the shaft is either direction and freeze.

i found that the two gear boxes were connected in such a way the they directly  Opposed each other is direction of rotation. I also found that the cracked gear was the cause of the limited rotation.

I am confident the the model was never successfully run.

I will have questions about how to proceed and as those questions arise I will post them with the pertinent pictures.

Thanks for your input

I use Stay Brite, but get good results with 60/40 tin/lead solder.  Starting to have problems getting good flux; the liquid Stay Brite might be the best for brass.  You need good soldering equipment - a torch works, but for beginners a Weller 80 Watt electric iron is quite good.  A torch can overheat things quickly.

The best flux I ever tried was Oatey's H2O - it was lead filled, and would clean even dirty brass.  I haven't been able to find it in over a decade.

Wonder if that stuff is still available outside of Cali?

I think that can make a cool model! ESPECIALLY if you get it running nice and smooth, with a top notch DCC/Sound and speaker installed. Wow!

Paint? Well, several lines had the low nose version:

* Santa Fe

* CB&Q

* NYC

* SP

* SSW

* UP

Can't really go wrong with any of the above. To me, in conjunction with a smooth mechanism and a great DCC/Sound/speaker combo, ANY of the above schemes would be a winner of an end product!

Best of luck with it!

Andre

 I have two of these models  I bought from a Californian two decades ago. They are both Union Pacific I bought them because they were runners with a B truck for a smaller layout. I paid $260 a piece. I don't find them lacking as  I'm not a rivet counter. I do think I could probably open them up and add some glazing to improve them but that would be when I get the mood to. They are on the wall with my other trains that I kept after going back to N scale. I would have stayed in O  scale if I could have kept the big house. Now they are just here to enjoy looking at like someones art collection.  A year later I bought an Orient model of the UP GP20 for $1,000It too is a beautiful model but rarely out of the box. I should sell it and let someone else enjoy owning it. But just knowing I have it feels good.