Kentucky Steam now selling CSX Pride in Heritage shirts.

Is CSX changing its attitude toward steam ?

Yes, very slowly and carefully.

How tomorrow moves....Very interesting!

Another CSX predessor road locomotive, the Nashville, Chattanooga and St. Louis Dixie Class 4-8-4 #576, is currently undergoing restoration here in Nashville, TN as I am typing this. Without the most gracious assistance of the CSX in towing the 576 several miles over its live rails to the Tennessee Central Railway Museum, this restoration would not have been possible. We TCRM members are most grateful to the CSX for this move. During the course of the move, CSX also allowed the engine to be on display on their rails adjacent to the former Nashville Union Station for several hours for the public to view the 576.

The real question is in our litigious society will CSX ever allow a public excursion again pulled by steam? I mean they do allow limited excursions like the New River Train which is now Fall Colors Express. Last time steam pulled that excursion was 1994 with the Milw 261 subbing for the 765. I hope someday for 2716 to visit Philly via the ex-B&O. If CSX will ever entertain the idea. I don’t think there will ever be a program like Chessie did ever again. Well, Hunter the steam hater is six feet under, but CSX had the anti-steam culture way before Harrison arrived. Probably since 1995. I remember there was a strict ban on steam on BN in the 1980’s and Hunter was with them at the time. I think with mainline excursions it’s more the liability issues that make railroads afraid of hosting them. When Amtrak hosted excursions, the freight railroad’s butts were covered because Amtrak insured the train.

But there is the flip side to the liability question.  Would any non passenger railroad want a trainload of people who have no concept of situational awareness, cannot listen to instruction, and whose actions can be described by Judge Judy's favorite adjective:  STUPID!

Not all are like this.  But enough to poison the well.

Kent Loudon posted:

Is CSX changing its attitude toward steam ?

Rich Melvin posted:

Yes, very slowly and carefully.

Possibly a little Monkey See Monkey Do at the top of CSX after the media frenzy over the 4014 tours and the good press that the simple little 611 movement to Strasburg gave to NS.

Attitudes aside, a RR is a business.   Steam programs don't fix bad business decisions or bad infrastructure and doesn't make money or immediate "shareholder value" but as a business  CSX gets its share of bad PR over many things that may or may not always be their fault.

A little bit of good PR sprinkled around in a steam/heritage program might be some media and public relations money well spent.

That is something CSX seems to need as a railroad.

ALL good points! Also best to negotiate discretely and "below the radar" regarding requests for steam operation with any major Eastern road in the present climate.  ☺

Rule292 posted:

...Steam programs don't fix bad business decisions or bad infrastructure and doesn't make money or immediate "shareholder value" but as a business  CSX gets its share of bad PR over many things that may or may not always be their fault...A little bit of good PR sprinkled around in a steam/heritage program might be some media and public relations money well spent.

At least part of the mind set in Jacksonville is a desire to undo all the terrible press and bad PR heaped on CSX during the late Hunter Harrison's reign of terror. In a wonderful display of irony, the biggest steam hater in the railroad industry could ultimately be responsible for steam returning to a class 1 railroad in the east.

Most interesting irony indeed! 

>>Without the most gracious assistance of the CSX in towing the 576 several miles over its live rails to the Tennessee Central Railway Museum, this restoration would not have been possible.

That is amazing!   Does anyone recall CSX's  response to Western Maryland Scenic's  attempt to transport their 2-8-0 to South Branch Valley?  

Kent

Rich Melvin posted:

Rule292 posted:

...Steam programs don't fix bad business decisions or bad infrastructure and doesn't make money or immediate "shareholder value" but as a business  CSX gets its share of bad PR over many things that may or may not always be their fault...A little bit of good PR sprinkled around in a steam/heritage program might be some media and public relations money well spent.

At least part of the mind set in Jacksonville is a desire to undo all the terrible press and bad PR heaped on CSX during the late Hunter Harrison's reign of terror. In a wonderful display of irony, the biggest steam hater in the railroad industry could ultimately be responsible for steam returning to a class 1 railroad in the east.

Kent Loudon posted:

>>Without the most gracious assistance of the CSX in towing the 576 several miles over its live rails to the Tennessee Central Railway Museum, this restoration would not have been possible.

That is amazing!   Does anyone recall CSX's  response to Western Maryland Scenic's  attempt to transport their 2-8-0 to South Branch Valley?  

Kent

 

As I have always maintained:  All it takes is a change in management and steam can live or die.

Rusty

Ah, longing for the days of Graham and Robert Claytor (the Steam Brothers)!

I wonder though with Hunter gone could steam return to CP? Wasn’t the Empress under overhaul when Hunter took over at CP? I wonder what Keith Creel and Jim Foote feel about steam? I thought though in the Ward era that some attorney discouraged CSX from hosting any steam excursions? But what about the annual fall excursions in WV? It’s still a passenger train no matter what the motive power is. Apparently CSX doesn’t mind that excursion.

Robert K posted:

I wonder though with Hunter gone could steam return to CP?

The decision would be up to the Board of Directors, and they would then have to convince Keith Creel.

Wasn’t the Empress under overhaul when Hunter took over at CP?

No. He simply didn't want anything to do with it. The 15 year boiler certification (Canada has pretty much the same steam locomotive boiler requirements as the FRA in the U.S.) has since expired on 2816.

I wonder what Keith Creel and Jim Foote feel about steam?

Reportedly they don't really care one way or the other, as they have far more important issues to concern themselves with every day.

I thought though in the Ward era that some attorney discouraged CSX from hosting any steam excursions?

I believe that is true.

But what about the annual fall excursions in WV?

Do you mean the New River Gorge operations? Those were under Amtrak. 

It’s still a passenger train no matter what the motive power is. Apparently CSX doesn’t mind that excursion.

Again, those were Amtrak operations over Amtrak operating territory. Besides, steam locomotives ALWAYS bring WAY MORE people to trackside!

Please, everyone buy a shirt early and often. We at Kentucky Steam Heritage Corporation greatly appreciate it.  

Rich Melvin posted:

Yes, very slowly and carefully.

Like mating porcupines?

Those are nice shirts and maybe even our 576 team needs some! Although we have the Nashville and Eastern Railway over which to operate excursions with the restored 576, it would be extra special to do a mainline CSX trip.

Just placed my order for one of the shirts. I'm not really a csx fan at all but that logo was just too cool to pass up.

I just tried going to the site about getting a shirt, and, my internet provider has blocked it. It's saying the site is not safe, and, it can't provide a secure connection. I like the logo, go figure.

Rusty

Everyone is quick to pounce on Hunter, but for Kentucky Steam Heritage Corporation he and his hand picked successors have been very helpful and we would not be where we are today without them. Without the team in Jacksonville recognizing our plans to transform an entire region of the state our vision would never have become a reality.  Hunter and his team agreed to sell us our property in Ravenna, helped move our support cars that were held hostage in the ITM meltdown, donated and restored a C&O wide vision caboose to “better than new” condition, donated a running SW1500 to us and of course to cap it all off, moved 2716 over one of their busiest main lines in the country (at speeds approaching 50 mph sustained)...  As an influential CSX corporate employee has stated publicly, it’s not that the company has been anti-steam... they just haven’t had the right group(s) and proposals to feel comfortable with, or the groups/owners approached them with an entitlement to run on THEIR railroad. I honestly feel our team is changing the game with CSX and giving them confidence in the PR and marketing tool they have before them.  

Diverging Clear posted:

I just tried going to the site about getting a shirt, and, my internet provider has blocked it. It's saying the site is not safe, and, it can't provide a secure connection. I like the logo, go figure.

Rusty

Rusty, reach out to Cassie at c.bottorff@kentuckysteam.org and she can take your order via email. Thanks. Chad 

Diverging Clear posted:

I just tried going to the site about getting a shirt, and, my internet provider has blocked it. It's saying the site is not safe, and, it can't provide a secure connection. I like the logo, go figure.

Rusty

I would suggest to you that your internet provider is having a problem with its validation process. The link gives me a secure connection and the website has a valid certificate:

Those pesky search engines!  😐

The CSX also graciously donated two boxcars to our 576 steam project for storage of tools and materials related to the restoration. We are most grateful for their generosity and support!

I am going to suggest to the 576 project manager, Shane Meador, that get some CSX heritage shirts for our team! Of course, we will need a 4-8-4 arrangement!

Hunter Harrison was the scrooge of the train world. Good ridden!

Nevertheless, EHH's hand-picked successors were EXTREMELY generous in donating both equipment and rail passage for the 2716! BRAVO, Jacksonville! ☺