KEY BigBoy

But will it have a swinging whistle, smoking bell, and depleting grease cakes?

Since they are adding road number specific details I'll bet they'll add those features for you Brian. It will certainly be one of a kind. 

Butch

I do not understand why Key would do the Big Boy when one is already in the works. He has not delivered the Zephyr cars after how many years now, let alone the promised FT, SD40-2, and the SP Cab Forward.

Sounds like spiteful dealer competition to me. Are you getting a Kohs Big Boy? If you are not, then how can you judge the Key model? Just saying. Stephen

Since the "UP Big Three", i.e. the 800s, the 3900s, and the 4000s, all had roller bearing axles, there were no "grease cakes" to deplete.

I am sure you would get a response from George Kohs on that statement, his current import the UP Challenger is the current state of the art and his announced Big Boy will excede that.I am sure each new import will seek to improve on the level of accuracy and detail than prior models. As far as user friendly the more superdetailed these models are the far more difficult they are to handle and work on.[Kohs Challenger 5K, Key Cab forward 7K+]

Problem with either the Key or the Kohs is if you are 60 or older there is a reasonable chance it will not show up before you kick your bucket list.  Sunset has also announced a Big Boy done by Boo Rim to be done in 2016/17 after 4014's configuration is known (if I remember correctly from the O Scale West announcement) and I would wager it shows up before either a Kohs or a Key.

Last I heard, it was not only OK for two different importers to do the same model, it actually helped advance the state of the art.

The Sunset Big Boy of a decade ago was pretty darn nice for a grand, but these are two distinctly different hobbies on the same track.

Sounds like spiteful dealer competition to me. Are you getting a Kohs Big Boy? If you are not, then how can you judge the Key model? Just saying. Stephen

I guess I don't understand Stephen's restriction.

Just out of curiosity did Kohs sell all of his reported 100 Challenger models at 5K a pop?

bob2- There is no restrictions on any model an importer wants to do. What happens as everyone knows it that the orders get split between two importers and both may lack enough reservations to produce the model. This has happened many times over the years! This is not good for the hobby as then no model gets produced. That's just logical. I know Kohs will sell out of his models because of his large following. Besides Kohs has sound and DCC, plus now trademarked changeable axles for Proto 48, I don't think Key will do that. But again Key has a few model yet to be delivered. I am sure the Kohs model will be out first anyway. Again just saying. Stephen

Suppose Key proposing a Big Boy may be being fueled by the enthusiasm for a real Big Boy coming back to operation, but I have to say, I am up to my gills in Big Boys. They have been over produced, whereas, many appealing locomotives are going unattended in O Scale. For example, a Texas & Pacific 2-10-4/Chicago great Western 2-10-4.

I have seen the video on the Key model and theres no question these models are reaching new highs in super detailing. I have talked to Dave at the O scale National 2 years ago and shipping these models damage free is becoming a big issue[no suprise there] one personal observation as terrific as the models look in Erics super pics I don't get the same feeling seeing them in person,don't get me wrong they have always featured superb paint jobs and look good but a lot of the detail is lost on a casual observation or watching them on a layout [diesels] the cab forward would probably show best unpainted JMHO. Not suprised on excess Challengers this is a very small market. I am suprised that Division Point does well in the HO collector market with their products.

I agree on all points hibar. KOH's did a really nice job on the Challenger packaging. The loco sits on a plywood platform with two metal cradles (like the older KEY BB's) that support two driver axles. Keeps it from moving around in the foam and it has several layers of soft material wrapped around it to protect the paint. But, if it ever breaks loose from the cradles it will destroy the brake rigging and electrical wiring and pickups between the drivers. But, it would have to be an extremely hard shock to the box to do this.

I just sent my Challenger to Lee Turner for weathering to bring out those details that are hidden by the great factory paint job. Lee is a true artist in this medium. 

Butch

What's nice about Kohs locomotives is that he will repair them. Who repairs keys locos when something goes wrong? Just asking. Stephen

Gary Schrader can work on them Stephen.  

Just so I know since we're exchanging info, who works on the KOH's locos. I don't supposed George does it. Hopefully I never need it, but just wondered. 

Butch

George Kohs and Key Products are very nice models. Does anyone really run them? At the high price point are they just for display or shelf queens?

George Kohs does his own service work on his models.  I  the water scoop shield on my NYC Hudson come loose while changing out the scale coupler for a Kadee and I sent the tender back for repair.

I think I am going to have him install DCC in them as time and $$ permits.

Also, I have run all of my Kohs models at one time or another.

Torino

Interesting. Koh's are masterpieces of modeling but at $5000+ an engine I did not think that many people ran them or even had them since there productions runs are often small 100 or so models.

Most engines were limited to 100 produced.  I think the PRR K4 and GG1 very a bit more (125?).  The de-streamlined Hudson and Y6a were 50 each.  Within the production run there are variations, some limited to 10 or so.

Some guys have dozens of locomotives and cars, have large layouts, lots of scenery.

I just have Kohs steam engines.  Well, maybe a few D&RGW engines from other manufacturers! 

I just like highly detailed steam loco models.

Torino

I think he is reeling us in - we both struck at the bait?

Yes I am a dealer and you or Dave have not provided any information what so ever to me on pricing or anything as of that matter! No dealer brochures to show customers! No web updates as to why models are late. How is a customer to find a dealer if you do not list the dealers? You might know the pricing, why am I not getting that information? Even Sunset and OMI puts pricing out there for people to have an idea before contacting a dealer.

You have no information on the website for customers. And it is funny that you don't admit to Dave not wanted to being contacted. The website is a total mess. No contact information for the public to give input or feedback. No I do not know why the Zephyr cars are late, you have not sent out any updates. I know nothing of what Kohs says about Key as I do not communicate much with him and it has nothing to do with me. I don't care who doesn't like who. All I am interested in is the models. Now who is a crock of ****! Dave is a great guy and I am thankful for his models! My points are simple and clear, so why are they never addressed? Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall, you're always right and never wrong. Now you can say anything about me at will to make yourself feel better, but I will not respond to the inept . Stephen

Happens every six to twelve months. A "bladder releiving" contest comparing Kohs and Key with the suporters of one dispariaging the other and vicey versa.  I agree with the one statement, if you are 65+ years old, don't bother reserving either a Key or Kohs model.  It isn't the importers fault it takes so long, it is the level of detail and goal of "perfection" that takes so long.

Larry

UPDATE! It looks as though it will be a good thing that two importers are doing the BB!

I just read that the demand on a high end model will most likely exceed one importers demands, so there should be enough to go around. Now I see that Lionel is bringing out a $2700 BB. Who knew. Stephen

Thanks for chiming in Roger as when it comes to the nuts and bolts of KEY company business I'm not the one to comment and it was evident the responses needed to come from someone knowledgeable. No point adding gasoline to the fire with incorrect information. 

So much can't be said here and I doubt if would change the feelings of some anyway.  

Good to see you posting again!

Butch

The list price is a joke there has been a discount war on preorders on this model and there is almost a 1K discount.

HI Bob,  I believe you are correct, I should have figured him out a long time ago.  Total waste of time responding to him.

Gentlemen: As I said I don't care who makes the models If I want one I will buy it. George lacks posting updates when he says he will. He will post that he will update in the next few days, and then months later will post. It is frustrating. I have one of his PRR flats coming and I am starting to get frustrated about the lack of updates and the delays. Every importers has problems, but the Key website and lack of customer information stated above is lacking, even for dealers. I really didn't believe Split window would answer honestly the questions above. His best answer is to degrade or put down anyone who has an honest question. I have nothing to do with Key or Kohs business as I am not involved in either. There are several people here on the forum that know me, like Big Jim which I have known since the eighties. Some of you guys need to quit gossiping about people you don’t know and stop making up lies. I have nothing to gain stirring trouble. So to conclude Split window, I would very much appreciate it if you could post some answers please, I would very much appreciate your kindness if you could do so as I believe you’re a really great guy deep down. Thanks, Stephen

If anyone here is offended I very much apologize. Life is too short.

Sorry hibar; I was thinking about this in a different light. Are there people selling these units?  I wanted a NS SD70M-2 or a Katy SD70ACe. Stephen

There is a new CSX just listed on Ebay and I have seen several so far on O scale Yard sale and Ebay, don't recall if there was a Katy.

Fuggedabout all that other junk! You wanna buy a real BIG BOY, here it is: http://www.brasstrains.com/Cla...4-Big-Boy-Steam-RARE

Simon

Stephen,

Years back in "O Scale News/48 ft." they had a blurb about them  (it stated there, that only 4 were to be built, and the builder, Mr. Kliewer was keeping one for himself) and I think they had them at $32K each, but what's a grand or two among friends! 

Interesting that just about all parts were machined with very few castings used. Considering all that, seems odd that there is NO back-head detail!

The Big Boy is waaaaaaay down on my list of favorite UP engines so for that, and 30 some thousand odd other reasons I chose NOT to buy. Now maybe, just maybe, if that back-head detail had been included...........

Simon

Imagine the people who paid the 32k-33k- back when they were first built, if he actually got that much then. Brass Trains may have this on consignment or was part of a collection they bought and at this point they are just testing the waters.

Nice model, but lacks full brake rigging because of interference with gearboxes on each axle.  Boxpok drivers appear to be US Hobbies, not scratch built.  Kohs Challenger way better - underside of tender beautifully represents cast water bottom casting by General Steel Casting, Granite City, Illinois.

This model is truly a work of art!!! If I had the money to spend, I would get it. The fact that it is almost entirely handmade makes it very desirable in my opinion.

If anyone is not receiving the latest updates for Key Models and would like to, please use the below link to sign up for emails with the latest information when it's available from Key and Wasatch Model Company.

http://visitor.r20.constantcon...b1-8a0d-4ed25a68c4c8

Thank you splitwindow.

Will this also be on the Key website for others beside this forum can recieve the latest updates?

Stephen

I have signed up for the Key updates. How do I only get Key updates without getting the Bum emails?

Stephen