Skip to main content

There's a lot of problems that we all may think is the real issue for me it's simple. 

I respect other people personal property no matter the value behind  it. 

For those that know me here personally will see me and my son and dad at all the local trains show. When I went to the shows with my dad as a child he didn't have to worry about me reaching and grabbing things. I grew up in a break it you brought it house hold. I plan to teach me son the samething. It ok to point at something or say I can't see. I'm more than happy to pick him up so he can get a closer look. But I will not let him touch any without asking the owner for permission. I've seen kids at some train show reaching over the barriers trying to grab at a moving train. It's common and it happens all the time. Some clubs will setup a rope around the edge of the layout to keep people back. I don't have a problem with that at all. The problem I see the most is why would someone expect a child to have respect for another person personal property when the parent doesn't care themselves. As a parent I hope we all can teach our kids what it means to show some respect.

case In point:

My 5(now 6) year old grandson was given a Lionel

Thomas set for Christmas. He also had James and

the two car passenger set that came with Thomas.

also some freight cars that he could run behind James.

he beat them up very badly. My daughter and her husband

(20 somethings) gave me the trains and cars and asked if I could fix them.

For sure, I said, Popi will fix them. went online to the Lionel web site ordered

parts for two locos and some cars. $50 later and gave the trains back.

Once again they have been destroyed. My wife says she wants to buy

more trains for the kids. I told her NO. The kids have not been taught

how to take care of their stuff and it gets beat to DEATH and my daughter throws

it away.

Last edited by Popi
From the amazon.com detail page of the Lionel Thomas remote set:

Product Details

  •     Product Dimensions:         19.3 x 18.9 x 5.4 inches   
  • Shipping Weight: 11.6 pounds (View shipping rates and policies)
  • Shipping: Currently, item can be shipped only within the U.S. and to APO/FPO addresses. For APO/FPO shipments, please check with the manufacturer regarding warranty and support issues.
  • Shipping Advisory: This item must be shipped separately from other items in your order.  Additional shipping charges will not apply.
  • ASIN: B0089U30V4
  • Item model number: 630190
  • Manufacturer recommended age: 8 - 15 years
  • Batteries 3 AAA batteries required.
  • Amazon Best Sellers Rank:  #54,274 in Toys & Games (See Top 100 in Toys & Games)  
He should not have been given that set until age eight.  Don't blame a 5-year old for being a five-year old.
 
 
Originally Posted by Popi:

case In point:

My 5(now 6) year old grandson was given a Lionel

Thomas set for Christmas. He also had James and

the two car passenger set that came with Thomas.

also some freight cars that he could run behind James.

he beat them up very badly. My daughter and her husband

(20 somethings) gave me the trains and cars and asked if I could fix them.

For sure, I sais, Popi will fix them. went online to the Lionel web site ordered

parts for two locos and some cars. $50 later and gave the trains back.

Once again they have been destroyed. My wife says she wants to buy

more trains for the kids. I told her NO. The kids have not been taught

how to take care of their stuff and it gets beat to **** and my daughter throws

it away.

 

Last edited by Martin H

Kids need to be taught at an early age how to take care of their belongings.  Model trains, even the Thomas stuff intended for the younger kids, are fragile, and will not stand up to the abuse dished out by young kids.  IMHO, just buying them more stuff after they've destroyed what they have doesn't teach them anything.  Just MHO.

For what it's worth, I spent 45 minutes untangling the pantograph on my Lionel JLC GG1 after a woman in her late 40's caught it with the purse she wasn't paying attention to while leaning over the club layout at a show.  I have also had several close encounters with older guys and their beer bellies hanging over the layout.

 

I have yet to have a kid cause damage to any of my equipment.  I'm not saying there haven't been close encounters, though I am prepared to push the order button on the Lionel parts page if it does happen.

 

I occasionally have accidents at my Redford Theatre display at Christmastime and its usually because a screw holding a coupler on or something like that came loose and caused a derailment.  9 times out of 10, it's a kid that comes up and reports it to me.

Originally Posted by Popi:

case In point:

My 5(now 6) year old grandson was given a Lionel

Thomas set for Christmas. He also had James and

the two car passenger set that came with Thomas.

also some freight cars that he could run behind James.

he beat them up very badly. My daughter and her husband

(20 somethings) gave me the trains and cars and asked if I could fix them.

For sure, I sais, Popi will fix them. went online to the Lionel web site ordered

parts for two locos and some cars. $50 later and gave the trains back.

Once again they have been destroyed. My wife says she wants to buy

more trains for the kids. I told her NO. The kids have not been taught

how to take care of their stuff and it gets beat to **** and my daughter throws

it away.

And you gave a five year old a train set that is made of mostly plastic why?  My GRANDFATHER along with my father taught me how to properly play with trains.  Of course there was damage, but nothing irreparable.

 

I'd say you need to take a step back, find a more rugged set for him and actually teach him how to take care of it.  I was 3 when I received my first set and I still have every component of it in pretty great shape and I wasn't the easiest on my trains back then.

 

 

Originally Posted by Martin H:
From the amazon.com detail page of the Lionel Thomas remote set:

Product Details

  •     Product Dimensions:         19.3 x 18.9 x 5.4 inches   
  • Shipping Weight: 11.6 pounds (View shipping rates and policies)
  • Shipping: Currently, item can be shipped only within the U.S. and to APO/FPO addresses. For APO/FPO shipments, please check with the manufacturer regarding warranty and support issues.
  • Shipping Advisory: This item must be shipped separately from other items in your order.  Additional shipping charges will not apply.
  • ASIN: B0089U30V4
  • Item model number: 630190
  • Manufacturer recommended age: 8 - 15 years
  • Batteries 3 AAA batteries required.
  • Amazon Best Sellers Rank:  #54,274 in Toys & Games (See Top 100 in Toys & Games)  
He should not have been given that set until age eight.  Don't blame a 5-year old for being a five-year old.
 
 
Originally Posted by Popi:

case In point:

My 5(now 6) year old grandson was given a Lionel

Thomas set for Christmas. He also had James and

the two car passenger set that came with Thomas.

also some freight cars that he could run behind James.

he beat them up very badly. My daughter and her husband

(20 somethings) gave me the trains and cars and asked if I could fix them.

For sure, I sais, Popi will fix them. went online to the Lionel web site ordered

parts for two locos and some cars. $50 later and gave the trains back.

Once again they have been destroyed. My wife says she wants to buy

more trains for the kids. I told her NO. The kids have not been taught

how to take care of their stuff and it gets beat to **** and my daughter throws

it away.

 

You can take the age recommendation and throw it right OUT the window. I bought our son his first Lionel set when he was 5. My son is now 28 and I still have that set and run it at shows. If sometime in the future he ever asks for it back, I will send it to him.

So don't tell me a 5 year old cant learn how to take care of his stuff.

Last edited by Popi
Originally Posted by SantaFe158:
Originally Posted by Popi:

case In point:

My 5(now 6) year old grandson was given a Lionel

Thomas set for Christmas. He also had James and

the two car passenger set that came with Thomas.

also some freight cars that he could run behind James.

he beat them up very badly. My daughter and her husband

(20 somethings) gave me the trains and cars and asked if I could fix them.

For sure, I sais, Popi will fix them. went online to the Lionel web site ordered

parts for two locos and some cars. $50 later and gave the trains back.

Once again they have been destroyed. My wife says she wants to buy

more trains for the kids. I told her NO. The kids have not been taught

how to take care of their stuff and it gets beat to **** and my daughter throws

it away.

And you gave a five year old a train set that is made of mostly plastic why?  My GRANDFATHER along with my father taught me how to properly play with trains.  Of course there was damage, but nothing irreparable.

 

I'd say you need to take a step back, find a more rugged set for him and actually teach him how to take care of it.  I was 3 when I received my first set and I still have every component of it in pretty great shape and I wasn't the easiest on my trains back then.

 

 

read my previous posted reply

Originally Posted by Popi:

read my previous posted reply

 

I did, and it still doesn't make the situation look better to me.  You bought a 5 year old a set that is mostly plastic and expected him not to break it?  If you had bought him a newer scout type set with a diecast engine (and spur gears that turn when you push it manually, unlike the worm drive Thomas stuff uses), it would probably be a different story.

 

Why can't you as his grandfather teach him how to take care of his stuff?  Apparently you were able to teach your son.

Last edited by SantaFe158
Originally Posted by SantaFe158:
Originally Posted by Popi:

read my previous posted reply

 

I did, and it still doesn't make the situation look better to me.  You bought a 5 year old a set that is mostly plastic and expected him not to break it?  If you had bought him a newer scout type set with a diecast engine (and spur gears that turn when you push it manually, unlike the worm drive Thomas stuff uses), it would probably be a different story.

 

Why can't you as his grandfather teach him how to take care of his stuff?  Apparently you were able to teach your son.

My sons set was ALL plastic, STILL have it. My Grandson lives in Indiana.

we live in New York

Originally Posted by SantaFe158:
Originally Posted by Popi:

read my previous posted reply

 

I did, and it still doesn't make the situation look better to me.  You bought a 5 year old a set that is mostly plastic and expected him not to break it?  If you had bought him a newer scout type set with a diecast engine (and spur gears that turn when you push it manually, unlike the worm drive Thomas stuff uses), it would probably be a different story.

 

Why can't you as his grandfather teach him how to take care of his stuff?  Apparently you were able to teach your son.

When you become a grandfather and are able to teach your grandkids how to act and take care of their stuff then call me

Originally Posted by tcc10:

... What I did see was a lot of 50-75 year old men fondly clutching the newest, greatest and neatest engine that cost $500 or more. Kids do not understand that the engine they just broke costs $500, they just know it is fun to watch.

And that is precisely why I maintain a roster of inexpensive WbB engines whose sole role is to run on our club's modular layout. Young or old, the general public is oblivious to the cost of "high end" engines. I suspect that 99% would be horrified to learn that some crazy white-bearded fat guy would spend $2K+ just for an engine.

 

Our society has lost respect for personal property. Children that have never worked to earn a dollar have no connection between the effort it takes to earn money and the value of the goods and services that you purchase.

 

FWIW, I still have my first 1954 vintage American Flyer. It was broken in 1967, and my parents did not get it repaired. I was fortunate to find a gentleman a few years with the parts and skill to repair my engine. Today it is operational again.

 

We had one incident in over 7 years at the Chesterfield County Fair. One boy grabbed a new MTH Premier caboose off the end of my train. His mother did her best to block my way to the exit as I chased down her precious little angel. When I caught up with him and took my caboose back his mother was right behind me. She "couldn't believe that I wouldn't let her son keep a cheap $2 little toy". Had I pulled that stupid stunt, my parents would have torn up my backside. Instead, I was the bad guy.

 

Gilly

Last edited by Gilly@N&W

I got my first train set for Christmas when I was 5. I still have it. My parents taught me to take care of my toys. I also have other toys from my childhood, and some that belonged to my father. Some of my toys eventually wore out or got destroyed from constant play (one of my most cherished was a race car given to me by Mauri Rose, the 3-time Indy 500 winner; I played that one to death), but parents can teach a kid the difference between play and destruction. 

Originally Posted by SantaFe158:
 If you had bought him a newer scout type set with a diecast engine (and spur gears that turn when you push it manually, unlike the worm drive Thomas stuff uses), it would probably be a different story.

You make a very good point for anyone looking to purchase a train for a youngster. I do appreciate your perspective.

 

Children do enjoy pushing trains around on the track. The older drives are certainly more suitable for this purpose. The engine you cited is an excellent choice. Also, a non-powered dummy with a few inexpensive MPC cars would be good for a child's starter set.

 

You know, what bothers me most is that any parent TODAY would allow their child to be out of their sight in public. Sorry, but when my sons were little they were either being carried or were having their hand held when we were out in public. As a Grandfather, if I see an unattended child around our club layout my inclination is to watch out for them and find their parent(s) ASAP.

 

Gilly

 

Last edited by Gilly@N&W
Originally Posted by Gilly@N&W:
Originally Posted by SantaFe158:
 If you had bought him a newer scout type set with a diecast engine (and spur gears that turn when you push it manually, unlike the worm drive Thomas stuff uses), it would probably be a different story.

You make a very good point for anyone looking to purchase a train for a youngster. I do appreciate your perspective.

 

Children do enjoy pushing trains around on the track. The older drives are certainly more suitable for this purpose. The engine you cited is an excellent choice. Also, a non-powered dummy with a few inexpensive MPC cars would be good for a child's starter set.

 

You know, what bothers me most is that any parent TODAY would allow their child to be out of their sight in public. Sorry, but when my sons were little they were either being carried or were having their hand held when we were out in public. As a Grandfather, if I see an unattended child around our club layout my inclination is to watch out for them and find their parent(s) ASAP.

 

Gilly

 

had a grandmother at the Syracuse show last year walk by my board frantic!!!!!!!!!!!

I shut the trains down and asked her what or who she was looking for. She couldn't find her 6 year old grandson. I told her to wait by my board and went to the main desk up front. They had found him and he wanted to leave, but the guys up front held him there. I went back to my board and got the Grandmother and said he had been found. When she got over to within sight of him, he came running and grabbed her and didn't let go. Somehow they had gotten separated and he was very scared but glad to see his Grandmother again. Happy Ending!!!

You know, I really think we should just quit having shows and see what happens. Not just train shows. Hobby shows, hunting shows, car shows...

 

Schedule the show, hype it, then cancel at the last minute. Make it *VERY* public why the show is canceled. "Canceled because people can't stop being a-holes. Your wild kids come in and break all our stuff. Thieves take everything the kids don't break. Someone's always looking to slip and fall and get rich quick. We just can't tolerate it any more. People need to wake up and learn to be nice to each other. Until that happens, we're done."

5% of people cause 95% of the problems, whether adult or child. My feeling is to deal with the 5% directly, kindly, but firmly and not to make blanket policies that ruin it for the 95% of good kids and adults. That's how I ran my classroom and that is how I like to deal with people. Why shut down a show and ruin it for hundreds when you can pull the 5-10 problem people aside and reinforce the rules or if they continue to be a problem, ask them to leave. In 13 years at Central Operating Lines Open Houses we never had to do that.

 

Yes, certain rules should be clear and common sense goes a long way. When admitting folks to a display, thank them for coming and mention that the trains are very expensive, so please, no touching.

 

Common sense also dictates running less expensive trains on outer tracks so that the 5% who disregard the rules can do minimal damage. There's a time and place for running $1,500 locomotives and a public display or open house isn't a good idea. In the years I was a member of Central Operating Lines, we had a 16 inch high plexiglass barrier and it was never a problem. For serious fans, club members would be happy to show their locos at a table away from the layout. There was no barrier at the passenger yard and everyone could see many facets of the layout operation there. We had very few problems over the 13 years I was there. (We moved in 2007).

 

Yes, my experience teaching was that kids did become less respectful of authority over my 33 years, but if you clearly set limits and treated your students with respect, encouragement and fairness, you would earn the respect they were not taught to give at home. Please do not touch signs, a gentle reminder at the door and a big smile and thanks for coming go a long way in helping things run well. Project a grumpy, hostile attitude and kids will look for a way to push your buttons.

 

 

 

 

I am not going to claim that some kids aren't out of control, that parents can let kids run wild and not think of consequences and so forth. That said, in a perfect world everyone would be careful, everyone would be aware that a vision line locomotive is a 1500 dollar item, and so forth, but the reality is many don't, and while I obviously understand why people get upset when something gets broken, it isn't exactly like these are unexpected or unknown, anyone who has ever been around a train show or any kind of public event can't claim that they don't know that. 

 

I think what makes it worse is these shows are often sold as 'family' entertainment, the Greenberg shows and others mention a lot of things that are designed around kids, like a play area, a train drag strip, all kinds of things obviously aimed at younger people, so these shows are attracting kids to see things that are very expensive. A more adult show, like a gun show, is aimed mostly at adults, as are things like boat shows and cars shows, and for those attending they know boats and cars are expensive, as are guns, and they therefore are a lot more careful, whereas ma and pa seeking something to do on a weekend sees a train show, that advertises toys, toy trains and the like, and they think 'aha, something for the kids', they don't think of it as a place where a bunch of old grumpy guys go to complain about everything, crop dust each other and create mayhem with their scooters*lol*.....seriously, part of the problem is people don't know the cost of these things, don't understand that they have a primary focus on adults rather than kids, and may not be as vigilant as they might be at a more adult oriented venue.

 

I also am going to earn the wrath of the 'those were the days' crowd, but I would be willing to bet that if you talked to people who were vendors back in the day at various shows where kids went, you would hear the same complaints, there were kids who were responsible kids back then, responsible parents, and there were parents who raised kids who were wild and out of control *shrug*. The big problem is that toy trains are in reality anything but toys, they are either expensive collectibles akin to stained glass lamps, or they are operating marvels that often cost more than an Ipad, these are adult toys, not really kids toys so the stakes are much higher. 

 

As far the a 5 year old with trains, saying "I was responsible" is like pointing at a 5 year old playing paganini on the violin and telling your kid "see that, you can be doing that too"......the problem is that kids mature differently, and when they put an age on a train that says "8-14", it is because they have determined that 8 is when the typical kid can safely enjoy the product. Every kid develops differently, and when you ignore the age posted, you run into trouble. The other factor there, too, is adult supervision, a 5 year old with adult supervision can probably play with a train, but one doing it on their own may end up breaking it. I don't know the kid in question or his parents, but I wonder if the parents realized how relatively fragile the train was, if they set it up for him and then let him play with it, they may not have realized how fragile it was and may not have bothered to explain to the kid it was fragile, that you couldn't play with it like a toy truck; it could be they are good, diligent parents but fell into the 'toy train' trap with it, assuming it was more akin to playmobil or brio, rather than being something more sophisticated. 

 

My recommendation, is if you want to give something like an electric train to a kid, is to talk to the parents about it, let them know what you want to give, tell them it is relatively fragile and what they think of the designated kid, in terms of responsibility and so forth, and make sure they understand it isn't a tonka truck or something. 

Originally Posted by bigkid:

 The big problem is that toy trains are in reality anything but toys, they are either expensive collectibles akin to stained glass lamps, or they are operating marvels that often cost more than an Ipad, these are adult toys, not really kids toys so the stakes are much higher. 

 This is an excellent point!

 

Well, you threw it out the window and it ended up with the same train broken twice.
 
Lionel knows their products and business much better than us, I assure you.
 
Originally Posted by Popi:

You can take the age recommendation and throw it right OUT the window. I bought our son his first Lionel set when he was 5. My son is now 28 and I still have that set and run it at shows. If sometime in the future he ever asks for it back, I will send it to him.

So don't tell me a 5 year old cant learn how to take care of his stuff.

 

Originally Posted by C W Burfle:

quote:
Lionel knows their products and business much better than us, I assure you.


 

And they don't give away trains or set up displays at any but the largest train shows. I don't think they even do Springfield (MA), which is a two day show with over 25,000 attendees per year

I wonder what that may indicate. Not cost-effective? Not worth the time?

While I made attempts to be facetious, the bottom line is that if kids DO NOT get

exposed to trains (and some of the problem is that they don't see real trains every

day like I used to.....they are fewer and they run less frequently...I can go for

weeks without seeing one unless it crosses a viaduct over the interstate while I am

passing), if kids are not exposed at shows, the hobby will wither away.  My thanks

to those who are willing to risk their property and put it in harm's way, to make known

to children that these toys and this hobby exists.

Originally Posted by colorado hirailer:

While I made attempts to be facetious, the bottom line is that if kids DO NOT get

exposed to trains (and some of the problem is that they don't see real trains every

day like I used to.....they are fewer and they run less frequently...I can go for

weeks without seeing one unless it crosses a viaduct over the interstate while I am

passing), if kids are not exposed at shows, the hobby will wither away.  My thanks

to those who are willing to risk their property and put it in harm's way, to make known

to children that these toys and this hobby exists.

That's a good point!!! I have even had adults come up to me at shows and say

"I didn't even know that these things were still made".

Well my experience over the years(since 1984?) , I have had only one bad accident involving my AF Heavyweight passenger set(652-653-654 bakelite). The only year I DIDNT put up a safety edge or rope barricades, a Kid comes along(8 years?) and grabs the train in the middle to pull it off the table as it goes by! The only casualty was of course the #652 coach, which landed on one end onto hardwood floor. The end shattered like glass. Then the "Parent" comes by grabs the kid and says lets go.

  Oh well.....since then, all my layout modules have a 3" 3/4" edge

   My most recent show was at Heritage Park. Kids of all ages(0-99)love watching the trains. Most of the parents are pretty good at watching their brood, however, some parents see "little Johnnys" fingers poking and finally derailing the train(s).

  At least they don't fall onto the floor now and damage(if any)is minimal.

   Derailments due to little fingers will happen during a train show, usually about 2 - 5.

The smiles and the their excitement is worth it! Some kids just keep coming back to my layout, with their parents following in hot pursuit. They just love to watch the 3 trains running around on their loops, with smoke puffing out and choo choo sounds everywhere.

   Here are a couple of pics from the show. Rod Stewart is the "Big Hook" on call, to re-rail a UP Northern, which hit the ties from an errant finger.

Attachments

Images (6)
  • Heritage Park "Railway Days" 2014: Kids are fascinated by the actioin
  • Wow!
  • Ooops!: one of the few derailments
  • Can Mom see me??: this little girl caught my eye, as I was talking to her mother. She wasnt sure if Mom knew she was "missing"
  • Yes, She can!: This is a priceless pic. She just loved the trains
  • Heritage Park 2014: everybody went home happy

I love all the posts talking about today's permissive parents who can't say no like it's a new phenomenon.  Let's roll back the clock to when I started teaching kids with emotional disabilities 20 years ago.  I had a group of kids who didn't understand what the word no meant; they oftentimes tore up their belongings when angry, broke things on purpose when upset, and didn't care about the consequences.  Roll the clock back 40 years - as a child, I saw plenty of kids in my neighborhood who were destructive, tore up their toys, and basically ran amuck.  I watched a neighbor kid get yanked off his bicycle by his father, dropped to the ground like a sack of cement, and walloped with a belt because he didn't do something his old man wanted.  Another great story that I didn't get to see happen was when the kids who's dad had passed away went through his old Army trunk, found a revolver, and promptly fired off a couple rounds and blasted holes in the walls.  I guess my mom was correct in forbidding me to go to that house to play.  It's not a new thing for there to be kids who misbehave - when I'd talk to my 87 year old dad, he told horror stories about kids in the 30s who were wild and did what they wanted.  He watched some of them get beaten in their front yards with paddles, belts and straps for doing crappy things, and the next day the kids went back to being monsters.  There have always been kids who acted like creeps, and there will be more of them down the road.  

Originally Posted by MTN:

I love all the posts talking about today's permissive parents who can't say no like it's a new phenomenon.  Let's roll back the clock to when I started teaching kids with emotional disabilities 20 years ago.  I had a group of kids who didn't understand what the word no meant; they oftentimes tore up their belongings when angry, broke things on purpose when upset, and didn't care about the consequences.  Roll the clock back 40 years - as a child, I saw plenty of kids in my neighborhood who were destructive, tore up their toys, and basically ran amuck.  I watched a neighbor kid get yanked off his bicycle by his father, dropped to the ground like a sack of cement, and walloped with a belt because he didn't do something his old man wanted.  Another great story that I didn't get to see happen was when the kids who's dad had passed away went through his old Army trunk, found a revolver, and promptly fired off a couple rounds and blasted holes in the walls.  I guess my mom was correct in forbidding me to go to that house to play.  It's not a new thing for there to be kids who misbehave - when I'd talk to my 87 year old dad, he told horror stories about kids in the 30s who were wild and did what they wanted.  He watched some of them get beaten in their front yards with paddles, belts and straps for doing crappy things, and the next day the kids went back to being monsters.  There have always been kids who acted like creeps, and there will be more of them down the road.  


Good point. I promise you that every generation has looked at the generations after them and thought collectively that theirs was the last one that was any good. The only difference then v/s now is that there are a long line of people waiting to stop that father from pulling the belt out. All say you can't discipline your kid, yet none have an alternative to keep the kid in line.

Accept certain inalienable truths:

Prices will rise. Politicians will philander. You, too, will get old.

And when you do, you'll fantasize that when you were young, prices were reasonable, politicians were noble, and children respected their elders.

-from "Wear Sunscreen" Mary Schmich

Originally Posted by MTN:

I love all the posts talking about today's permissive parents who can't say no like it's a new phenomenon.  Let's roll back the clock to when I started teaching kids with emotional disabilities 20 years ago.  I had a group of kids who didn't understand what the word no meant; they oftentimes tore up their belongings when angry, broke things on purpose when upset, and didn't care about the consequences.  Roll the clock back 40 years - as a child, I saw plenty of kids in my neighborhood who were destructive, tore up their toys, and basically ran amuck.  I watched a neighbor kid get yanked off his bicycle by his father, dropped to the ground like a sack of cement, and walloped with a belt because he didn't do something his old man wanted.  Another great story that I didn't get to see happen was when the kids who's dad had passed away went through his old Army trunk, found a revolver, and promptly fired off a couple rounds and blasted holes in the walls.  I guess my mom was correct in forbidding me to go to that house to play.  It's not a new thing for there to be kids who misbehave - when I'd talk to my 87 year old dad, he told horror stories about kids in the 30s who were wild and did what they wanted.  He watched some of them get beaten in their front yards with paddles, belts and straps for doing crappy things, and the next day the kids went back to being monsters.  There have always been kids who acted like creeps, and there will be more of them down the road.  

It is the old story, people look backwards to when they were kids and say how everything was different (anyone remember the song "Kids, what's the matter with Kid's Today" in Bye Bye Birdie?) when in many cases, they are remembering things from the view of a child, who is more likely to see the 'good things' and not experience the bad. Whether it is 'permissive parenting' (which is hysterical, many of those people throwing that around were children of the baby boom, whose parents were accused of being 'permissive' and so forth *lol*) is debatable, bad parents have been around since people had kids, and there were bad eggs in every generation. Tom Sawyer was the hero to kids who read the book, while Sid the 'good' kid was the enemy, yet young Tom Sawyer would probably think derailing a train running around the tracks was funny .......I have heard people claim how the 1930's was a much more moral time, yet look at the evils that came out of that decade around the world.......

 

I think every generation thinks it has it bad when it comes to kids, there is an inscription that describes how the youth of the time are disrespectful, lazy, don't want to listen to their elders and will be the ruin of their society..and it was written somewhere around 600 bc in Babylon. Anatole France, the writer, wrote that "to people in every era, their time is modern, with all the ills that go along with being modern".

 

As far as train shows go, unless we want to admit these are adult toys and ban kids below a certain age, maybe it would be better to acknowledge that not all kids are perfect (or adults), and build the shows around that concept. Maybe have rules in the vendor area that for a kid to approach a vendor table, they need to be with an adult, for vendors, make it a point to remind them this is an open show, not York, and give them suggestions on how to make their sales table safer. With layouts, if there is valuable equipment running, have them set up so kids can't reach the valuable trains. Won't take care of all eventualities, but expecting perfect behavior or that everyone will follow the rules or that all parents are diligent or forgetting that even diligent parents have their moments is going to lead to the kind of complaining and moaning we hear. It kind of reminds me of things I have seen, where a young child grabs something that is expensive and the parent freaks out on the kid, when my son was young, we kept dangerous and valuable things out of his grasp, it is just common sense, something a lot of people seem to be lacking. Unless we want shows where it is grumpy old men selling to other grumpy old men, we should design the shows to take the potential problems into account and reduce the risk. 

 

quote:
Unless we want shows where it is grumpy old men selling to other grumpy old men, we should design the shows to take the potential problems into account and reduce the risk



 

Why do old men have to be grumpy?

I want shows where happy old men sell trains to other happy old men.

I think that earlier in this thread, I read that anyone over 12 is old. (or something like that)

Last edited by C W Burfle

The Allentown train meet Feb and Nov has real Allentown police officers at every back door to the hall. No one will be able to steal anything and get away with it. Sometimes there are officers at the entrance/exit, too. I suppose if you would try to rip somebody off and walk away with an expensive item without paying for it someone might see you like a table vendor and they would get the police and you would be arrested for theft. If you would try to run out with the item the cops would probably try to stop you.

Originally Posted by C W Burfle:

 

quote:
Unless we want shows where it is grumpy old men selling to other grumpy old men, we should design the shows to take the potential problems into account and reduce the risk



 

Why do old men have to be grumpy?

I want shows where happy old men sell trains to other happy old men...

Actually, regarding characters in our hobby, from my limited perspective of standing in-line at train shows and being on-duty at my bi-annual booth @ TCA York Meets, I don't recall meeting any grumpy guys. Experts at everything trains, oh yes, though.

 

However, on train forums, I have "become acquainted with" a few characters who have been not so much grumpy as, very apparently, in great need of re-socialization and/or the therapeutic assistance of prayer. No kiddin' . Fight-cats and grenade-lobbers. Gettin' their kicks.

Last edited by Moonson
Originally Posted by Robert K:

The Allentown train meet Feb and Nov has real Allentown police officers at every back door to the hall. No one will be able to steal anything and get away with it. Sometimes there are officers at the entrance/exit, too. I suppose if you would try to rip somebody off and walk away with an expensive item without paying for it someone might see you like a table vendor and they would get the police and you would be arrested for theft. If you would try to run out with the item the cops would probably try to stop you.

Why not just walk out, calmly and smiling, with treasure in-hand. Nobody that I am aware of gives receipts (or do they?) so how would guards/police tell the difference between items obtained by theft and those just paid for?

Add Reply

Post
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×