Kits?

I,am curious, if Lionel, MTH, and other manufactuers offered their products in unfinished kit form how many would buy them? Would it save them money that they could pass onto the customer? I like all the detailing the new models have, but I have a hard time justifying spending the money.  Judd

Over the years I have repeatedly read that offering trains as kits really would not save any money. The money saved on assembly gets spent on managing and packing the inventory of individual parts.
Lionel did offer the prewar 700E as a kit, as well as the "O" gauge and "OO" gauge scale freight cars. I don't know how the prices of the kits compared to the assembled items.

I was thinking that it might increase sales. Maybe people who like building models as a pastime and not running them. Or people like me who like doing both.

I would love kits. Rolling stock and engines. Total fulfillment vs out of the box drop on the layout and done.

Amen to that!

Kits have disappeared from all of the major model manufacturers in all scales because the overall market doesn't want them anymore, particularly as models have become more complex.  Below is the parts diagram for a Rapido (HO) dome car, a far cry than an old Athearn Blue Box dome which had around a dozen or so parts:

All those parts would have to be counted and packaged for a kit.  That also means added labor for inspection, counting and packaging. 

How many would want to take the time nowadays to build one, in any scale?  Whose fault would it be if the paint job gets boogered up during assembly?  The user for accident, poor technique or the manufacturer because "the part didn't fit?"  And I'm sure woe be to any manufacture that had a kit with a missing part or two.

Rusty

Would like to see an engine in kit form with drop in wheel sets and easily replaceable gears if and when they get worn.

As much as I would love to put together a kit, there just doesn't seem to be much market for them. Athearn discontinued the Blue Box series a couple years ago, so if HO scale can't support a line of kits, I know O can't.

Well, this would be a MAJOR paradigm switch for a variety of reasons.

Perhaps the biggest of which is sourcing.  You see, since most of our hobby's production occurs overseas, now, you're gonna be fighting 'city hall' to get them to ship parts as kits, rather than completely built/finished final assemblies.  I don't believe that the Chinese government has changed their rules for their manufacturing-for-export industries......ONLY complete assemblies, no sub-assemblies or parts.  It's their way of assuring that there will be little chance of global competition for the final assembly.

When the industry had state-side sourcing/manufacturing, it was much easier to think of different retail strategies.  For instance, Intermountain Railways Co, now pretty much serving only the HO market, was once a predominately kit producer.  I've still got a bazillion of their kits.....destined for a seriously declining market thereof due to my laziness....and switch to O3R!.  Then, as the market demand shifted more to the better detailed/quality R-T-R products (Somewhat driven by Kadee's advent into the rolling stock biz.), IMR started offering the same......but still offering to sell the cars in kit form as a special order.  Now, I believe, even kits are no longer offered by them.  And the world is happy, happy, happy with that.....apparently.

Of course, it's interesting that Kadee has recently established some of their cars in undecorated kit form (boxcars, for now).  

But, going back to the sourcing issues....  I don't see the return to kits for those products now sourced overseas any time soon....if ever.  For instance, consider Atlas rolling stock production....HO, N, and O scales.  They offer completely built and undecorated R-T-R cars....but not kits for the same.  It kind of reflects the persistance of China factories in ensuring that they're building/shipping the highest possible assembly. 

Then, too, I recall an experience with Broadway Limited Imports when I was in HO.  Early after their release of an EMD SW switcher, I decided to get an undecorated one to paint in my favorite RR scheme, as yet not projected to be done by them.  To my dismay the clear windows in the cab of this engine came glued in place, rather than separated until painting/finishing was completed by the owner.  Yep, apparentlly their  China builder did not want any loose parts leaving the plant!  So, the clear window cab molding had to be literally chiseled out (IOW, destroyed!) of the cab interior, replaced by some sheet clear styrene after painting (cab interior/exterior). 

But, that's just MHO.  I LOVE building the old made-in-USA kits of yore....All Nation, Athearn, Reynolds, etc..  I'd love to see some serious rolling stock kits return to the market.  But......

KD

Just wishful thinking on my part. I remember when hobby shops sold everything in kit form,and Lionel was in the toy stores. I guess model railroading means making little buildings , trees and scenery. Fortunately you can still add modern electronics to the older locos.

You have to look at the market-  the demographics are against us.  Most of those under say, 50, have never built models (I know- we are an exception) BUT never forget that we enthusiasts are NOT the normal.

Our society wants to plunk down a card, get something and use it.  Also- a great majority of our O-Gauge product is sold through TWO broad markets- hobbyists (us) and the mass market (retail chains, or online outlets). 

There are very few hobby or train stores left.  WE need to be sure and buy from these brick and mortar shops!!!  If we  continue to buy only online- online is all we'll have!!

I hear the same thing concerning radio-controlled cars in the hobby shop where I work part time.

Every now and then, a hobbyist will come in wondering whether our RC cars come in kit form, like they used to years ago. The answer is generally “no.” While there are some kits available to the devoted few who still care, and parts can be purchased for someone who wants to custom design their own models, most RC companies steer clear of kit production because of a market shift where assembled models drive almost all of the sales.

O gauge was once a kit-centric hobby for the adult crowd back in the 1930s, ‘40s and ‘50s, aside from the toy train offerings. That really hasn’t been the case for many decades now. It seems most people always preferred ready-to-run rolling stock all along. But there are always a few who prefer otherwise.

And yet the plastic kit hobby continues to thrive, offering much greater variety than ever before:  cars, trucks, aircraft, ships, armor, figures, Sci-Fi. . . .

Judd posted:

I,am curious, if Lionel, MTH, and other manufactuers offered their products in unfinished kit form how many would buy them? Would it save them money that they could pass onto the customer? I like all the detailing the new models have, but I have a hard time justifying spending the money.  Judd

I'd love to see it happen, but I don't expect it any time soon.

If one goes on "da bay" you can search ahm o scale and there are two steamer kits one can purchase. There are motorizing kits in addition to make them run in O scale. One does have to custom convert to 3 rail if wanted.

palallin posted:

And yet the plastic kit hobby continues to thrive, offering much greater variety than ever before:  cars, trucks, aircraft, ships, armor, figures, Sci-Fi. . . .

OK....a topic I can reply to with some real info.

First....like all things the plastic kit industry is alive and well.....but very different than say the booming 1960's. During those boom days a plastic model car could sell 60K copies easy. Some really popular kits sold one million copies. Today a very good seller is 15K a year so a lot different today. 

Kits of current O scale trains. When  I was a partner in a biz that sold all kinds of NASCAR hobby kits, decals and die cast during it's boom 1986=1999. We were getting lots of requests for unpainted die cast cars in kit form. This was at the time items made in China were pretty cheap. So we figured if we were buying these nice die cast cars painted, assembled and licensed  for 55% off msrp then unpainted kits without needed licensing would be really cheap. We went to the manufacture to get a quote for kits. We were told kits would cost the same as factory finished unit!!! Why???? Thankfully the manufacture was a long time friend and explained in detail the why. Manufacturing in China can be very different from what we know here in the states.  A single item may be the product of 4 or 5 different factories. For die cast race cars the rubber tires may come from one vendor, plastic detail parts another, die cast parts from a third. Also the bodies may be cleaned and prepped by a different vendor. Painting and tampo by another and final assembly in a different shop. 

Creating kits from this 'community' manufacturing would actually cost more....count and pack all the parts, packing  and making sure the right part and numbers in each. More labor and disruptive to the Chinese way of doing things. Thus more cost. Pretty sure the same applies to our model trains. 

I'd LOVE kits. Just do not hold your breath waiting on them or think they would be cheaper. BTW I just bought two very nice O scale craftsman kits off ebay. One a modern covered hopper, the other a PRR 86 foot hy-cube box car. Total for both shipped to me?? S$22....and they are great kits. 

    There are car kits still out there, but they aren't what you may expect. Mostly wood or brass. They are, or at least close to, scale, look great and a fun to build, but usually look out of place in a train of shiny plastic cars. Quality and detail can vary, even within one company, even from year to year. Instructions can be good, or extremely crude, hardly giving a guess how to approach finishing one.

  There is a nice thread currently running in 2rs showing a bunch being built. You'd only need to swap trucks for pizza cutters and maybe adjust bolster seating for the most part. If you are here, you should search it out.

 Mike G sold me a kit from Ye Old Huff-n-Puff. A wood refer kit "Old Log Beer". Great fun. Instructions, so-so.

Locos-  AMH / Rivarossi offered scale plastic 2r locos and some cars as "normal" plastic kits in the 70s. There were kits to power them, and they were sold pre-built too. I got one, ICRR #382 ran by Casey Jones. It also came from Mike G a while back and was pleasantly surprized with it. 

  Delicate, but nice.(& with a GG-1 roller set and bridge rectifer, now ac three rail.). (0-42{?} mininum, but I modded to 0-31. It also has nearly scale flanges so runs best on flat top rails like Super O or FT, etc, vs. round tube tracks. Non power kits had plastic wheels. The kit quality was excellent IMO. The instructions are pretty darn good too.

   I run both those kits together and can never thank Mike G enough for letting me build and care for them. It sent me off on a kit-bash tirade, finishing old ideas, and cutting other things up without haste as well.

Another company, Nor-West, made a static line of 4-8 locos. Not high quality detail, but can be made acceptable looking.  I personally think they could be powered with some effort, but come 100% plastic.(50s,60s,70s??????)

  Try a boxcar at least. You'll likely be hooked 

RC is not in kits??.... Too funny. Last time I was toying with RC you couldn't buy a decent car; you had to build it. (I did have one scary fast off the shelf electric Tamaya. It only survived a few high speed rollovers. I think it hit about 35mph in a straight in the blink of an eye. Steering at that speed just wasnt happening; touch the steering at all, and it rolled over for about 20-30ft..