Known issues with PS2 AAA size batteries?

Hi Gregg,

Full DCS is on my roadmap -- that's why I'm rewiring my layout -- but right now just conventional. I'm fairly new to the hobby and don't no anyone within a 10 mile radius that runs trains let alone DCS. Nearest LHS is way out in Burbank and not worth the drive.

S

Ahh, I missed this critical distinction earlier.  With the battery connected (case 1) you CAN cycle through FNR.  This means the battery can supply enough power to keep most of the PS2 electronics operating when you press DIRECTION.  I'd say there's something going on in the audio path that doesn't like the reduced available power when running on battery vs. track.

As I suggested before, if so motivated, try reducing the volume way down and repeating with battery connected (case 1).  If audio still cuts out, then send it to George. 

Aha, now I get it a little better as well! Will do the very low volume check AND open up the speaker case and check that part of the harness. Will report back tomorrow.

Thanks!

Scott,  That is why I told you to unplug the speaker several post back.  I repaired one engine that would shutdown and restart every time the whistle was blown.  Turned out to be a speaker issue.  G

But with the additional info Scott provided, it's only the sound that quits when the Direction button is pressed - other functions appear to ride out the loss of track power.  If he unplugs the speaker he will have no sound period.  I'm not sure what this would tell us

Back when I made that recommendation it wasn't cycling.  When I read his current post it still isn't clear if it is cycling properly.  Either way, unplug speaker, this is the only other component in the "audio path" other than a nicked wire that remains.  I tested board SAT.

If the engine runs and shuts down correctly (relay click at about 5-8 secs). Than replace the speaker.  G

Ok, so last night I tried to do the really low sound test and found thats it's pretty much as low as it can get by manual control. I checked the wires to the speaker and the connector and the wire connections to the speaker and nothing obvious. Then I tried turning the sound way up. In this case, I noticed that the sound is not dropping out completely as I thought it just drops in intensity. I also ran with the speaker unplugged and the engine appeared to operate/shut down normally. I only had a few minutes last night so that's about it. If it's the speaker that would be a surprise. It looks pristine.

To G's point, tonight I will unplug the speaker, do the cycling check as instructed and time the relay click.

Timing is not exact Scott.  If you have another 4ohm speaker plug it in and start engine up.  Then shutdown and see what happens.  G

See below for my final solution. Seriously, what you are looking at is the RS11 with the speaker plug disconnected and plugged into the speaker plug in the tender of a RTR loco sounds engine. Aaaaand, it worked! No sound loss on FNR and sound continuing through power down.  I'm not going to claim total victory until I have installed a new speaker and THAT works but I'm pretty happy with the progress. Well done GGG and stan2004 and many thanks!

On a related note, what could possibly be wrong with an otherwise new looking 4 ohm speaker that it would cause this problem? Also, where do I get a new one -- is it a stock item I can get on line?

I'm pretty sure GGG stocks these speakers but in any event he or one of the other MTH techs will chime in with the part # and ordering info.

I'm curious too about the speaker.  As I understand it is sounds OK (no gross distortion, etc.) but the volume dramatically drops when driven off battery power.  Not sure I've heard of this one before, but I'm guessing an inter-winding short in the voice coil whereby you get, say, a 2 ohm speaker instead of a 4 ohm speaker.  So the speaker works OK but is harder to drive electrically.  You might put your meter across the speaker and measure the Ohms.  There is less power available to the audio circuit when running on battery power (vs. track power) which could account for the drop in volume.

I found a link to allelectronics.com for what looks like just the right speaker. Also I would say your failure assessment sounds about right. It's as if the speaker is pulling more power than the battery can provide. Will check the ohms tonight.

George

The speaker is a 4 ohm, 4 watt VECO 40AS04-2, about 1.5 inches in diameter. I checked the resistance yesterday and measured 4.3 ohms.

Will email you a picture.

Thanks

Final addendum to this problem. Solved! Many thanks to 3G and stan2004 for helping to isolate the problem to a bad speaker masquerading as a battery issue. Got the new speaker from George and the RS11 is finally in service on the layout. On a side note also installed a new tach reader -- also from George -- in my CP RS3 PS3. Great to have both of these beauties back up and running.

Thank you forum tech support!

Thanks for closing the loop.  Seriously.  I wish more people would follow up and spend 1 minute to let us know what happened.  Sure would like to know exactly what the deal is with your kind-of-sort-of broken speaker but problem solved so that's the main thing!

I can send the darn thing to you for an autopsy if you like.

I have seen it before Stan.  Reads good ohms static, but shorts when current flows.  G

So did G provide the exact part replacement?  If so, can you recall if the volume/fidelity of the original and its replacement are noticeably different?  I get the idea of the dynamic short...but it's so odd that the speaker worked dynamically when powered by track voltage, but dramatically lost volume when powered by the battery.

There is less power to the audio circuit when on battery but this seems to be in the handful of dB range rather than what appeared to have been loud-to-faint or tens of dB.  Hence I was curious if you hear a tangible increase in volume with the replacement speaker for normal track-voltage operation.  I suppose it's a "mute" (moot) point at this stage but if you happen to recall...

Stan,

To your question, the replacement speaker is not identical. It has a large magnet on the back where the original did not and was not magnetic in any way. Sound quality is slightly different but good. Recall though that even under track power sound from the original speaker was garbled and inconsistent. It would be good for a lap or two and then get steadily worse.

S

Scott, I forgot or didn't pick up on that. It makes sense to me now.  Thanks for the clarification.

This may sound stupid, but I can't work out how the original speaker worked at all if it didn't have a magnet in it. As far as I am aware, a magnet is essential in a conventional loudspeaker. 

Is there such a thing as a coil type  magnet? (wire wound) I never run across one with MTH , perhaps Lionel.

Whatever you do I'd avoid Duracell batteries.

I've now accumulated about 12 leakers pulled from controllers and CD player, etc.

In a word, they leak without warning often long before the "pull date" on the battery.

The speaker has a magnet, they are not as strong as the BF-34 speaker normally in the upgrade kit.  Scott's unit used the VECO but I thought it was the full sized one.  He actually needed the smaller one (40mm), which I did not have in stock, so I sent the same size just not Veco.  G

Are those real Duracells, or the fake ones? (The last 'L' on the name looks wrong, and I didn't know that they made them in China.)  I've never had a real Duracell leak on me. 

The package said Made In America and the store people said their buyers would catch fakes.  The "L" looks weird because it got part of the leakage.  Just had too many of these go bad from three big box stores in the area.

Trying to locate Kirkland brand now ... supposed to be very good and made in USA.

An email from Duracell rep asked for pictures which I sent and from that point there was no further reply.

The characters are supposedly Japanese or Korean because they sell them there?