Lake Superior ore docks

Nearby is a plaque explaining the dock's history and operating statistics. also, a nice set of LS&I equipment.

All photos taken with what I had, my cell phone. I may go back tomorrow in daylight with a real camera and see if ship is still there.

Photos then about 9 PM, but dusk lasts a long time in summer in Michigan's Upper Peninsula.

Interesting pictures thank you for sharing. I believe the U25C, less prime mover, is the only one left.

Interesting. You got me wondering, what is the current extent of iron ore mining and shipping around the Great Lakes. Found this info but it's at least 20 years old:

http://geo.msu.edu/extra/geogm...n_ore__taconite.html

And some interesting information about Lake Freighters, which have unique characteristics as compared to "Salties".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_freighter

Then I got diverted into the whole story and analysis of the Edmund Fitzgerald disaster in 1975 ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Edmund_Fitzgerald

Ace et al,

Here's some recent footage from "Delayed In Block" whose offerings are uniformly worthwhile - this is terrific:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5qdWIUrtBc

I live here right near Marquette. Yes the ore docks are cool. The kids and wife and I have lunch at Presque Isle park and watch them once in a while. Watching the trains  drop their loads from the top is interesting too.

The iron mine's life is iffy. Not only due to depleting deposits, but also very threatened by imported steel. Of the 2 big mines in the area, 1 will be closing this fall. 400 people gone.  It's sister mine is expected to stay running for another 20 years, perhaps longer. There are many more deposits yet though and always talk of new mines. My brother is a mechanic there and my father retired from there as well.

Bill, if your here for awhile yet, go to Houghton and up to Copper Harbor. Lots of mining and railroad history up there and excellent scenery. Several mine tours that are cool. Also the strawberry festival this weekend. We went up there yesterday and picked 24 quarts.

Matt

Thanks, Matt. No time for Copper Country this trip.  My family of origin, both sides, is here: Marquette, Negaunee, Ishpeming.  We've been coming here since my earliest days (over 70 years,) initially on the Peninsula "400."

Ship is still there this morning, easy morning walk along the shore.

You all have me humming Edmund Fitzgerald .....

'with a load of Iron Ore - 26,000 tons more, than the Edmund Fitzgerald weighed empty'  . . . .

Bill and/or Matt,

    You being Yoopers, I may have asked before, and might again, but do either of you have a version of a Con Culhane story? I'm trying hard to piece it together better.This Michigan legendary RR logger's story is dying off too fast. He moved his whole logging and RR operation from Culhane Lake (East of the Marquette penn. along Superiors shore), and did it in the WINTER, over the frozen cedar swamp to Shelldrake, near Paradise and Taq. Falls..All by lifting the rails behind him and re-setting them up front. You had to fight him to be hired on. If you would fight for a job, you'd likely work for it too

    My present goal is to find out what Mfg. and type of engine the "Ellen K" was, but any story would be fine. His wife (Ellen) bought the engine when the C&H mine canceled a loco order with the loco en route.(1894-1896?) A "planned scenario", they had trouble getting a dock to let them unload (politics/unions) and so did the unload on a beach (Whitehouse Landing, or the sand bar/shallow cove, north of Culhane Lake(?). He died 1903 falling under his own train....and I have to quit writing and update the laptop, can hardly type it's so bad.....

I'd appreciate any info. Ask the oldest local RR fan you know...please .

 EDIT: White landing is White House landing.

Very cool photos! My maternal grandmother was born and raised in Hancock, and her father (my great-grandfather) worked for the Quincy Mining Company. The mine tours and railroad history up there are fascinating. I am a proud Yooper descendant.

I always enjoy seeing the ore docs and LS&I display at Marquette, and its always fun to watch the lakeboats.

Hey Charlie (MichRR714) check this thread out! Just up your alley, Dave G.

Very much up my alley.  I love Marquette and the ore docks.  I am slowly adding LS&I equipment to my O Gauge roster.  I try to get there at least once a year!

This video was published on You Tube,  June 27, 2016  With more videos to follow.  You will see the Ore Docks and the LS&I in action.  This makes for an excellent model train project.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DuZRxyADq1M

Visited Marquette in 1980, and stopped by the Soo Line's lower yard in town. It was loaded with wooden freight cars in MOW service and the real find, a couple of iron buckets being used to store retrieved scrap metal. These were the kind used in coal sheds, for fueling steam locomotives. I assume, every bit of that, including the lower yard, is gone.

Nice to see there is still some ore boat traffic remaining.

I made one trip up through the UP, specifically chasing old mines and railroads....did not find as many as I wished, but am sure it was a case of having to know where they were.  It was a beautiful fall trip with good weather and great leaves a couple of years ago.  Definitely beautiful and full of history.  I had a guidebook on the old ghost towns, but..much is gone.  Good for a week circumventing the peninsula....research it and do it!

trainroomgary posted:

 You will see the Ore Docks and the LS&I in action.  This makes for an excellent model train project.

 

It would have to be a very small version, or a forced perspective version in the distance. A scale ore dock would probably be something around 20 feet+ long, and an ore boat maybe at least 15 feet long or so.  

breezinup posted: 

 It would have to be a very small version, or a forced perspective version in the distance. A scale ore dock would probably be something around 20 feet+ long, and an ore boat maybe at least 15 feet long or so.  

Hi Bill & "breesingup" / Bill have a safe trip, and hope you get to drive over the Mackinac Bridge.

Here is the rest of the story.  My son is a graduate of Michigan Technological University, Houghton, Michigan.  He is now a powertrain engineer for a major automotive manufacture.  He lived in the U.P. for, 4 years and took a lot of photos of the ore docks.

The ore docks are still on my bucket list and the bucket list at the DMRRC, yes this would be a major project.

My son married a “Yooper” and this makes my two grandchildren / 50% “Yoopers”.  They are both over right now.  We just got back from the beach, because the rain is moving in.  Got the sand off the two boys, gave them lunch and we are in the train room.  One is nabbing and the other is running a steam locomotive.  Ages two & one.

http://www.mtu.edu/

This started out as a Mining & RR College, in the U.P.

Gary

I was born in Ishpeming and grew up near Manistique and Iron Mountain.  I spent my childhood watching Soo Line and Wisconsin Central trains crisscross the UP.  I love Marquette.  I was there two years ago and got to see a seiche roll into the harbor and slowly cover the timber footings of the original ore dock.  It was a real treat as a seiche doesn't happen all that often.  My dream would be to have the space to recreate the Marquette ore dock in O, that'd be awesome.

Took a quick look again this afternoon.  The freighter that arrived last night was already gone. However, another one had arrived on the other side.

...  Wouldn't one of these be a great O-gauge model?

I recall seeing an ore dock like this featured as part of a model railroad in one of the Kalmbach "Great Model Railroads 20XX" magazines (usually published annually around the holiday-season).  I'll double-check, and let you know details if I can locate the article.  It might not have been O-Gauge, but I was pretty impressed by it nonetheless.

David

From: The Rock gets a Dock. Adding the ore dock at Agate Bay, photo from

model-railroad-hobbyist.com

Gary

Published on Jan 19, 2016

Ore dock installed and track added, model railroad layout.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtoFDk9RInE

Wow, great to see a lot of Yoopers here!  My layout (under construction) is based on Upper Peninsula railroading.  I have LS&I, M&LS, DSS&A, SOO, E&LS, M&HM, Copper Range, Milwaukee Rd, and C&NW equipment - all of which operated in the Upper Peninsula.  I'm a former and hopefully a returning resident, used to fire a 2-8-0 on the Marquette & Huron Mt RR in the 70's.  Lived in da Soo, Marquette, & Negaunee.

Any of you still in the Marquette area, I will be bringing in my ship (I'm the captain) into the lower harbor on the 16th, staying through the 18th.  It's the largest research vessel on the Great Lakes - the R/V Lake Guardian.  Maybe I'll see ya!

trainroomgary posted:

breezinup posted: 

 It would have to be a very small version, or a forced perspective version in the distance. A scale ore dock would probably be something around 20 feet+ long, and an ore boat maybe at least 15 feet long or so.  

Hi Bill & "breesingup" / Bill have a safe trip, and hope you get to drive over the Mackinac Bridge.

Here is the rest of the story.  My son is a graduate of Michigan Technological University, Houghton, Michigan.  He is now a powertrain engineer for a major automotive manufacture.  He lived in the U.P. for, 4 years and took a lot of photos of the ore docks.

The ore docks are still on my bucket list and the bucket list at the DMRRC, yes this would be a major project.

My son married a “Yooper” and this makes my two grandchildren / 50% “Yoopers”.  They are both over right now.  We just got back from the beach, because the rain is moving in.  Got the sand off the two boys, gave them lunch and we are in the train room.  One is nabbing and the other is running a steam locomotive.  Ages two & one.

http://www.mtu.edu/

This started out as a Mining & RR College, in the U.P.

Gary

BTW, they have a great railroad related curriculum now, for engineering students. 

  No personal photo's here. But I found a real old postcard of ore boats at the locks while looking ."Someone else" must have those older shots, I thought I did.

Have a good rest John  (The box is still here unless I buy another General ).

colorado hirailer posted:

I made one trip up through the UP, specifically chasing old mines and railroads....did not find as many as I wished, but am sure it was a case of having to know where they were.  It was a beautiful fall trip with good weather and great leaves a couple of years ago.  Definitely beautiful and full of history.  I had a guidebook on the old ghost towns, but..much is gone.  Good for a week circumventing the peninsula....research it and do it!

 The UP reclaims the land from all but the best of our human efforts there, if left unattended. On the ground, those RR grades aren't very impressive. But with some reading and landmarks, you can see remains of old RR grades all over the UP from Google earth. When the (icy cold all summer) water is real clear, you can find pilings from industry docks, long forgotten about. When I was young some of those true "ghost towns" still had buildings standing. One unmarked business place I discovered, could have been a movie set. A fire hydrant I spotted deep in the woods made me curious. Well hidden by many tall trees, but suddenly about 4-5 small buildings & perfect "dead end" street pavement & curbs. Well preserved. I couldn't believe the "store's" big windows hadn't cracked from the weather, so I looked closer thinking "movie set". But I'd say nobody had touched a thing since the 50's. Last attempt I couldn't find it again and trees are too dense to spot it GoogleEarth. Likely it had a" country" road leading there once, the trees are younger there where gravel road would have been too. Old dirt road grades can be spotted while hiking too ..On RRs names UP there, McNearny's (spelling?) were my families neighbors.  

  You could spend weeks reading historical plaques across the UP, but just seeing the whole area is more fun. To live there "before fences"?Oh man "I like the woods".

   More copper ore wealth came out of the UP than from the Gold Rush, and there's still other mineral resource exports, and timber! The ore played a large role in the fast growth of our southern Michigan industry too. 

.....and the moose are cool ..From the car, or kitchen window. Berries!  

My berries!

Wow, bull moose don't eat many, but do pee right over the berry bushes

I washed those much better after that. Added a sniff test before that too ....

Adriatic posted:

Bill and/or Matt,

    You being Yoopers, I may have asked before, and might again, but do either of you have a version of a Con Culhane story? I'm trying hard to piece it together better.This Michigan legendary RR logger's story is dying off too fast. He moved his whole logging and RR operation from Culhane Lake (East of the Marquette penn. along Superiors shore), and did it in the WINTER, over the frozen cedar swamp to Shelldrake, near Paradise and Taq. Falls..All by lifting the rails behind him and re-setting them up front. You had to fight him to be hired on. If you would fight for a job, you'd likely work for it too

    My present goal is to find out what Mfg. and type of engine the "Ellen K" was, but any story would be fine. His wife (Ellen) bought the engine when the C&H mine canceled a loco order with the loco en route.(1894-1896?) A "planned scenario", they had trouble getting a dock to let them unload (politics/unions) and so did the unload on a beach (Whitehouse Landing, or the sand bar/shallow cove, north of Culhane Lake(?). He died 1903 falling under his own train....and I have to quit writing and update the laptop, can hardly type it's so bad.....

I'd appreciate any info. Ask the oldest local RR fan you know...please .

 EDIT: White landing is White House landing.

 

I will find out the story. That one is new to me.

I have moved several houses in the winter, including our camp and sauna. A lot can be done when the ground freezes. You wouldn't believe the spots we make roads in- in the winter. We build logging roads as our occupation. Coaxing Caterpillars alive in -35  sucks, it used to be fun. Sometimes we let them run. We have a couple bulldozers and 3 dump trucks running right now in Michigamme on the old Fence Grade.

As for moose. We see them quite often. My mechanic hit one a month ago. We pulled the radiator away from the fan and jumped on the hood and tied it down and drove off.

Crossing the Mackinac Bridge scares the crap out of me. I just lose it. Can't help it. But I still do it.

In Munising you can still see the rails disappear into the water in the old harbor. There is also a glass bottom boat tour there. Goes over some cool old sunken ships. The water is very clear and you can see to the bottom no problem.

As far as ingenuity and hard labor. Nothing beats what the men of old did building these old tressels and mines. It is mind boggling when you are standing there looking at it first hand. The history is everywhere, especially in the Keweenaw.

I have some pics of the Calumet and Hecla RR units. A big old snowplow unit too. I'll get more this weekend.

It is a beautiful area but getting increasingly hard to make a living. Lots of bums here working the system too. 

John, any chance of getting a tour of your ship with the kids when you come to town?

Matt

Thanks, everyone, for all the comments! I looked and found this photo I took in the lower harbor area back in the 1970's or early 80's. You can see the approach to the DSS&A ore dock was still intact. Here's also a photo of the remains of that dock today.

Hi BanBob,

Must have missed you by one day... Stopped by to take my nephew out for dinner with the family.

I was able to take a few shots then the fog rolled in... beautiful town. Staying in Munising tonight, did the sunken ship and pictured rocks tour and it was fantastic!

You have to wonder what is the destination of the iron ore??   Requires a blast furnace and BOF to make steel. Europe, Southern Europe, or are there still blast furnaces/BOF's in the US.  China through the Panama Canal??? 

40 years, last fall, since the sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald, Note the Gordon Lightfoot song.  The shallow lake waters and the witch of the north are part of the lake(s) history.   

BANDOB posted:

Thanks, everyone, for all the comments! I looked and found this photo I took in the lower harbor area back in the 1970's or early 80's. You can see the approach to the DSS&A ore dock was still intact. Here's also a photo of the remains of that dock today.

 

Listen to this Bill.  It sounds as though the old loading dock structure is going to be converted to a building. Different shops etc. inside. I think it would be cool.

Nice morning today, rain tomorrow. I have one of my guys in Marquette right now picking up parts at the Caterpillar dealer. Always something broken.

Matt

J Daddy, sorry I missed you!  Hope you took them to the Vierling....my cousin and her husband own it. They brew their own beer and the food is good.    

Matt, I had heard something about that! that would be very neat to see. 

BANDOB posted:

J Daddy, sorry I missed you!  Hope you took them to the Vierling....my cousin and her husband own it. They brew their own beer and the food is good.    

Matt, I had heard something about that! that would be very neat to see. 

Small world, we ate at the Los Azteca on the water front there... great food... did you happen to get to Iron Mountain? There was as fantastic Iron mine tour that I really enjoyed. 

We looked at that restaurant, J. Daddy, and will check it out tomorrow. Can't eat at The Vierling all the time!

John, we'll be back home in Maryland by the time you get in. Hope you post some photos of your ship AND your layout!

I do have some C&NW, DSS&A, and LS&I equipment on my layout, and will post photos of them when I get back.

Really great to talk to other Yoopers here!   

My son got to drive the "Iron Mine Express train" out of the mine... I was very jealous! 

Could not believe the mother lode that is still in the mine... just too much money these day to extract!

J Daddy posted:

BANDOB posted:

J Daddy, sorry I missed you!  Hope you took them to the Vierling....my cousin and her husband own it. They brew their own beer and the food is good.    

Matt, I had heard something about that! that would be very neat to see. 

Small world, we ate at the Los Azteca on the water front there... great food... did you happen to get to Iron Mountain? There was as fantastic Iron mine tour that I really enjoyed. 

 

Yeah, the Iron Mountain mine tour is neat also. Feels good going down there on a hot day. It was 91 degrees on Father's Day, so we went on the tour. Felt great. Till you come back out!

I was even able to take a small bag of iron ore for free! 

  The logging roads deep ruts were my vehicles playground. I loved skidding my truck axles over them at high speed, shearing them slightly. (the ones not being worked ) When the wheels "drop", Ford twin I-beam kept you centered on the 2 tracker's center peak in 2wd  

   I've been chasing that Cornelius Culhane story for nearly ten years. My own account comes from rail fan discussions between my Great Grandfather (Kusan) and my Grandfather (Lionel) both TCA in the 60's at least. I think the conversation began at "Worths" restaurant on Old Worth rd on the edge of the Hiawatha forest.(memorable for the food and the many dozens of stuffed animal heads hanging in the ceiling....many connected by rope and pulley to the bar. They could distract you from your table to talk, and lower a head to eye level to scare the crap out of you when you turned back for a bite of food. The "screaming monkey" was the best/worst )....Anyhow, Great Grandpa asking about my engine, a 2-6-4, turned into speculation over Cons being a Prairie with a 4 wheel trailing truck added later. An American Adriatic, even a modification, was a big deal and we sent a few weeks chasing other old timers "eye witness" stories for confirmation. A Forney and a Porter were remembered by others. The Porter was the Shelldrake dock engine, so a Forney and a Prairie were mentioned most often. Many couldn't remember anything except "it was a tall "old timer" "it definitely wasn't a Forney". The builder was a "German named builder" and east coast, with easy ship access., but NOT the usual supplier of loco's to C&H mines who Con supplied timber for (mine shaft support timber, buildings, etc). Vulcan or Schenectady kept coming up. I think shipping records might be an easier "catch" Were is a maritime/RR fan when you need one?....(floating, till port )

  Remember I was only a kid and listening to stories from folks that lived it as kids. They were old now and speech was broken-Engilsh, German, French, Swede, and even some Ojibwe. I was "northern bi-lingual" enough to catch most, and it's sketchy, but aligns with much of what I've found reading.

  I'd love a good dump right now ... I never have seen one. The ore docks with approach, is the only way I've seen them. That one looks nice though. Sad but nice. The only issue with the creation of a building is if not built "right" and kept up, the whole thing will get demolished sooner, hastening the loss of the kind of physical history that helps the UP, "be the UP". Lots has been lost already under "best intention" schemes of the past.

Guess I'm just an all around conservationist from the conservation state

Mike CT posted:

You have to wonder what is the destination of the iron ore??   Requires a blast furnace and BOF to make steel. Europe, Southern Europe, or are there still blast furnaces/BOF's in the US.  China through the Panama Canal???

We still have steel production in the USA. These plants produce steel from ore:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...in_the_United_States

In 2014, there were 11 operating integrated steel mills in the United States, down from 13 in 2000. Integrated mills produced 31% of the steel produced in the US.

In an integrated steel mill, iron ore is reduced to metallic iron. In the US, this is done in blast furnaces ...

Current integrated steel mills in the US

The ore carrier boats on the Great Lakes are purpose-built and cannot all travel down the St Lawrence Seaway, and are not designed for ocean travel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_freighter

MattR posted:

John, any chance of getting a tour of your ship with the kids when you come to town?

Matt

You bet Matt.  We will have guided tours 10-2 on Sunday & Monday.  If that doesn't work for you e-mail me (in my profile) and we'll work something out.

Capt John