Large Steam Loco Question??

As stated above, most "modern" North American steam locomotives were fitted with mechanical stokers. Mostly, they could best be described as large screw like devices which, by virtue of a rotating motion, transported the coal from the tender to the firebox. With many larger locomotives, it should be noted it would have been difficult if not impossible to maintain sufficient steam pressure with hand firing, even if done continuously by multiple Firemen. That said, the Fireman still had to make sure the coal was properly distributed. In the end, it is important to remember tending to the firebox was just one of many responsibilities of the Fireman.

There are steam Enginemen including Messrs. Melvin, Wheelihan and others on this board who can provide much more detailed information based upon their personal expertise and experience but that's a brief overview of the need for mechanical devices. I hope they see this thread and I look forward to reading their posts.

Bob         

Not all "end of steam era" engines were coal fired, don't forget. Many, many were oil fired.

The Pennsylvania Railroad brought many L1s 2-8-2 mikados out of stand-by for the WWII heavy traffic load. Many of these did not have stokers and were very often assigned 2 fireman to handle the heavy steam requirements of the long war time freight trains.

I think that stokers were mandatory for locomotives above a certain weight on drivers, beginning in the 1920's. That caused considerable consternation on the D&H and on the Pennsy.

A stoker is basically an auger inside a thick "pipe." One auger extends lengthwise beneath the coal compartment in a tender and moves coal forward. A joint on the driveshaft allowes another auger (or a pair of augers in a "V" on a Duplex stoker) to elevate coal to a distributing plate under the firedoor. Steam jets "spray" the coal to keep the fire even and reduce hand-firing.

A stoker is hard to see. Look for two small cylinder heads under the cab or at the bottom of the front of a tender. That's the stoker motor.

No, that is the stoker ENGINE!

you can see the stoker cylinder heads centered in the picture on this Berkshire model.

Point taken. Thank you.

And you can see the internals of the real thing running in this video thanks to the Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society (who also calls it a "motor" in their title).

 

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/appliances/stoker.php

I believe it has been mentioned that on larger steamers like the J and 765 for that matter, that they are nearly impossible to keep up with coal by hand.

The pentrex video on the bigboy had an interview with one of the men that ran one. He mentioned a particular incident where they actually ran out of coal altogether. They grabbed some old ties that were left by the side of the tracks to use for fuel. He described how the draft of the bigboy firebox sucked the tie right out of their hands.

Just to demonstrate how much "demand for fuel" there was as steamers got bigger.

Wonder if they also refer to those two cylinders, pistons, rods, wheels and valve gear components that are under the boiler, as a "motor" also?

Wonder how the heck that mechnaism is lubricated--wrist pins, eccentric straps, etc. It loos like the system is sealed when on the engine.

It is sealed, and filled with a quantity of lubricating oil, I think, sort of like the standard transmission on an automobile.

Thanks Hot--makes sense.

I can personally vouch for just what Ed King describes. The first excusion that NKP 765 operated out of Fort Wayne, experienced a stoker auger screw universal joint failure. The late Brad S. Miller was recording from a microphone hung in the roof of the cab. Brad came back from the crew car and got me and Dick Yager, and said that we needed to come forward and listen to what was going on in the cab. Upon putting the head phones on, Dick quickly began to laugh, then passed the head phones to me; I quickly realized why he was laughing.

After a few more miles, the train came to a stop, and one of the younger guys came running back to the crew car, and indicated that then needed more help since the stoker broke! OK, so Dick and I head forward to the cab, and are quickly greeted with comments about NOT needing two of the oldest guys on the crew! Once in the cab, Dick sat down in the Fireman's seat and I grabbed the coal scoop. Dick adjusted the distributing table steam jets, and I started shoveling coal, and just let the scoop full drop onto the distributing table. Everyone in the cab was dumbfounded! I quickly pointed out that just because the auger screw quit, that didn't mean the coal distributing table didn't work. I then added insult to injury with, "You mean you guys were shoveling that coal ALL THE WAY FORWARD IN THE FIREBOX?". It was great fun.

Another case of old age and treachery, overcoming youth and enthusiasm!

I also personally talked to an old Engineer on the UP, who explained that as a Fireman, he experienced a jammed stoker auger on a 3900 class Challenger, while ascending Sherman Hill, westbound. Once they stopped, and the Head Brakeman telephoned the dispatcher about what had happened, they got permission to tie down the train, and cut off the Challenger and return light to Cheyenne. He said that it was all he and the Head Brakeman could do to keep boiler pressure up on a LIGHT ENGINE, by shoveling coal from the tender onto the cab floor and then onto the distributing table. He also said that that was the same way the headend crew got that 4000 class over the road, LIGHT!   

Thank you all for this info.  This was an education for sure. 

During WWII, J.J. Young was riding a Holloway-bound coal train powered by an EM-1 when a stray roof bolt wound itself up in the stoker somewhere around the base of Blaine Hill. Benwood Junction had no help to send, so the train made its trip hand-fired. When I asked him how he had time to take the pictures for the article--I can't recall now whether it was in Trains or R&R--he said there was such a crowd in the cab that he was detailed to kick the coal down in the tender, so he figured he might as well take pictures while he was up there. Believe it or not, they made it and, of course, had pictures to prove what happened.

--Becky

IIRC, Frank King said that when the Missabe bought it's first Yellowstones, they got them without stokers. However, they soon found that even with two firemen, it wasn't possible to feed coal fast enough to keep the engine's steam up, so they had to retrofit stokers.

I seriously doubt THAT, as the DM&IR Yellowstone locomotives were built LONG after thge ICC passed the law that all steam locomotives over a certain grate area and weight on drive wheels, HAD to be equipped with stokers.

Besides, even TWO Firemen would NEVER have ben able to throw the coal deep enough into that huge firebox, let alone keep up with the demands of that huge furnace system.

Hand fire a Yellowstone? No Way.