Some quickies after the unboxing
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The spacing between the tender and engine is much closer than my TMCC GS2 Daylight.... I like that.
I've always wanted this engine since I was a kid.
Beautiful! But,,,,,,,,why is the air horn painted silver?
You'll have to ask Mike Reagan 
Beautifully finished indeed (despite the air horn, which is easily remedied - should you feel the need). Thanks for the photos.
Yeah that's about the easiest fix possible 
Just plain pretty!!!!! congrats!!
Beautiful! Can't wait to see it matched up with cars.
Hi - I do remember seeing the Freedom Train, when it came to Michigan, see map below. Also click here for a brief history. Look forward to seeing this on your YT Channel.
Gary
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How does it run?! 
Nice.
Looks real nice,waiting on a video 
Doug
Doug,
That's beautiful !!!! we want a video 
Alex
I saw this beauty at York and I have been looking forward to this ever since. Lionel is planning something special with the cars, too.
I am looking forward to mine arriving at my LHS this week!
So I have a question about the rods - is it appropriate they be darkened or polished? I think they look fine darkened and I see pictures where they are polished and not so clean when the engine was in Freedom train service (and I believe ialso when she was repainted in AFT colors in 2001-2002 timeframe).
My issue is this though, The Lionel catalog shows them polished - and I really don't like it when what is depicted in the book is different from what arrives in the box.
If I am to put down $1400-1700 on a built to order locomotive based solely on a picture in the catalog, I wish that changes like these would be noted.
I would imagine Mr. Hotwater and others may comment that Blackened rods look more prototypical and I am in agreement with them, but on some models I do not like it.
If Lionel would offer to switch the rods to darkened or polished depending on the owners preference (for a small fee) I would be in agreement.
But at the end of the day I will still support Lionel and others, just voicing a small frustration.
Not my pictures except for the Catalog - just using them to illustrate my point*
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I wonder how it compared to the MTH model. Maybe its me but the loco seems sparse on finite details.
I hope the AFT T-1 that I have on order is not just the 1988 version with a new paint job and electronics!
Looking at the 3D printed prototypes of the T-1's I saw at York, those engines will definitely be a lot better detailed than the 1989-91 models. They're using all new tooling with more finite details like more accurate riveting, radius rods, and builder's plates.
Gorgeous! Enjoy running that beauty and thanks for posting the pics.
Laidoffsick posted:Some quickies after the unboxing
Pretty nice! Thanks for sharing.
MJ Breen, at this point we should know by now not to order something/anything based on the artist photo in a catalog. Lionel, MTH, Atlas...makes no difference.
PRRHORSESHOECURVE? Missing finite details????? Such as?
None of these manufacturers are going to please everyone with any one model. They are toys/models and part of the hobby is being able to modify them however we see fit to satisfy our wants/needs. Just as many people do like the darkened rods vs the shiny rods.
Here's the AFT with the MTH GS4 and the Lionel TMCC GS2 ...... then the new Legacy GS4 under the Sunset model. I did a lot of detail painting on the Sunset version, which I will do on the new Legacy version as well.
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LOS,
Beautiful engine, good luck with it. Would also like a video.
JohnB
C'mon Doug - Your fans are clamoring for the video! :-)
Laidoffsick posted:Here's the .... MTH GS4 and the Lionel TMCC GS2 ...... then the new Legacy GS4 under the Sunset model.
As an aside, look at the differences in the Daylight colors. The Lionel version is much richer, and more prototypical than the others. The MTH engine is really washed out, and the Sunset version, while not as bad as the MTH, is not nearly as prototypically vibrant as the Lionel, either. (I mentioned this when the Sunset model came out, and the comment was greeted with a certain amount of hostility by some!) The paint on the Freedom version looks great.
M J Breen posted:I am looking forward to mine arriving at my LHS this week!
So I have a question about the rods - is it appropriate they be darkened or polished?
Depends strictly on the era you are trying to model,i.e. original "in-service" would have "blackened/dirty" rods. Modeling the Freedom Train, and anything since 1975, then the rods would be highly polished.
I think they look fine darkened and I see pictures where they are polished and not so clean when the engine was in Freedom train service (and I believe ialso when she was repainted in AFT colors in 2001-2002 timeframe).
The rods on 4449 have always been polished, ever since she was restored for the American Freedom Train, and they still are today. Even on excursions, at the conclusion of each days operation, all the rods are washed with mineral spirits, then wiped down with dry rags (which are burned in the firebox the next morning in order to re-lite the fire.
My issue is this though, The Lionel catalog shows them polished - and I really don't like it when what is depicted in the book is different from what arrives in the box.
Guess it depends on what era they are trying to depict. Obviously the AFT version SHOULD have the rods polished, NOT blackened.
If I am to put down $1400-1700 on a built to order locomotive based solely on a picture in the catalog, I wish that changes like these would be noted.
I would imagine Mr. Hotwater and others may comment that Blackened rods look more prototypical and I am in agreement with them, but on some models I do not like it.
Absolutely right. For the modern "excursion era", the rods should be polished.
If Lionel would offer to switch the rods to darkened or polished depending on the owners preference (for a small fee) I would be in agreement.
Very good suggestion.
But at the end of the day I will still support Lionel and others, just voicing a small frustration.
Laidoffsick posted:None of these manufacturers are going to please everyone with any one model. They are toys/models and part of the hobby is being able to modify them however we see fit to satisfy our wants/needs. Just as many people do like the darkened rods vs the shiny rods.
Ohhh the irony.
Lionel only recently started darkening the rods. There have always been complaints about the light rods. Now that they darken them, folks want them light again.
Meanwhile MTH has had darkened rods for years. No one utters a peep one way or the other.
prrhorseshoecurve posted:I wonder how it compared to the MTH model. Maybe its me but the loco seems sparse on finite details.
Streamlined locomotives typically are less detailed because most of the piping, valves, and other goodies are covered by sheet metal. Thus the name "streamlined".
RickO posted:Laidoffsick posted:None of these manufacturers are going to please everyone with any one model. They are toys/models and part of the hobby is being able to modify them however we see fit to satisfy our wants/needs. Just as many people do like the darkened rods vs the shiny rods.
Ohhh the irony.
Lionel only recently started darkening the rods. There have always been complaints about the light rods. Now that they darken them, folks want them light again.
Well, maybe if they offered the rods in the appearance that was correct for the era, there wouldn't be any complaints.
Meanwhile MTH has had darkened rods for years. No one utters a peep one way or the other.
Again, it depends on the era being modeled.
Through all the discussion of polished vs. non-polished rods, I have wondered if Lionel corrected the Main Rods from the first Legacy run. Please forgive me if I missed mention of it.
The AFT engine in the catalog picture still shows the thinner, parallel-sided Main Rods, appropriate for the GS-2. Laidoffsick’s beautiful pic of his newly delivered model suggests Lionel used the larger non-parallel GS-4 rods, but the angle, position of the drivers and rods, and the darkened color cast a bit of doubt. Hot Water, what do you think?
If the new model does indeed feature the heftier Main Rods (which to these eyes contribute so much to the side impression of this locomotive), we would have an instance where we could thank our lucky stars that Lionel didn’t deliver as pictured in the catalog.
OddIsHeRU posted:Through all the discussion of polished vs. non-polished rods, I have wondered if Lionel corrected the Main Rods from the first Legacy run. Please forgive me if I missed mention of it.
Nobody has mentioned it but according to the photographs already posted, yes the main rod is now correct for a GS-4.
The AFT engine in the catalog picture still shows the thinner, parallel-sided Main Rods, appropriate for the GS-2. Laidoffsick’s beautiful pic of his newly delivered model suggests Lionel used the larger non-parallel GS-4 rods, but the angle, position of the drivers and rods, and the darkened color cast a bit of doubt. Hot Water, what do you think?
Looks OK to me.
If the new model does indeed feature the heftier Main Rods (which to these eyes contribute so much to the side impression of this locomotive), we would have an instance where we could thank our lucky stars that Lionel didn’t deliver as pictured in the catalog.
Thanks, Hot Water. YEA LIONEL!
The GS-4 Freedom Train has always been one of my most favorite decorated locomotives. I think Lionel really got the paint job right. I really love the chrome on the pilot and lettering.
Doug, a big thank you for posting this image.
In one picture you have proven to my wife that I am not alone in the craziness found in this hobby!
Just kidding, but the image does show as hard as the manufactures try, there will still be differences. Differences that sometimes get categorized as "the manufacture did not do their homework" of something similar. I'm sure none of the manufactures started out to make a "close enough" of this engine, but rather other issues came into play, cost, time to market, language etc.
I think what Doug shows, and shows well, is his ability to take an engine and add/change details to he liking. After all this is MODEL railroading is it not?
Some may argue that for the price these changes should not have to be made, and to that I say if you want perfect, including the high price brass items, then you are in the wrong hobby. Lionel, MTH 3rd Rail etc. They do their best to bring the product to market at a fair price and still make a few bucks to do it all over again with another model.
Thanks for sharing Doug and keep up the great work.
Charlie
Thank you Charlie. I am crazy, but I'm no longer in denial Why did I buy another GS 4 (actually 2 more)? I mentioned in another thread somewhere that... I just couldn't say no. I've wanted these since I was a kid, although I was into HO back then. I had already bought the GGD Daylight cars so of course I had to buy the Sunset GS4 when it came out so it would all match. The GS2 I got for $500 so I couldn't turn that down, and just upgraded it with the Super Chuffer & 4 chuffs via the Chuff Generator. It was also blacked out (removed white walls and all the silver handrails) to an in service look and will get weathered soon. The Nightlight my wife wanted. Yes, she wanted that one, and I never buy stuff with BNSF on it. The new Legacy engines don't match the GGD cars in the paint department but I wanted the sound and Legacy controls. I eventually modify everything I own anyway, in some way or another, be it couplers, paint details, or electronics. I usually make up private excursions trains for that stuff to pull just for fun. Like you said..... its Model Railroading!
I'm going to double head my 8444 with the AFT, and then the 844 with 4449 Daylight for an excursion run...just for fun I may throw the 261 in there for a fantasy triple header.
Laidoffsick posted:... I had already bought the GGD Daylight cars so of course I had to buy the Sunset GS4 when it came out so it would all match. ...
I'm not so much a rivet counter with all the details, but I do appreciate reasonably close color-matching. One would have thought that the different importers would have matched the "Daylight" color scheme. But that's not the case at all. I've always favored Lionel's rendition of the Daylight colors (in locomotives and passenger cars) with the solid orange stripe sandwiched around the orange-tinted red stripes. But Sunset's center orange stripe is clearly more of a golden orange, and I seem to recall K-Line's Daylight color-scheme somewhat similar in that regard.
I'll leave it to the experts to say which is more accurate, but my eyes definitely prefer Lionel's Daylight color scheme regardless how true to the prototype it may (or may not be).
David
Laidoffsick posted:Here's the AFT with the MTH GS4 and the Lionel TMCC GS2 ...... then the new Legacy GS4 under the Sunset model. I did a lot of detail painting on the Sunset version, which I will do on the new Legacy version as well.
WOW. I've seen (and ridden behind) 4449 in the 2nd through 4th versions of your stack. You still need a GS-4 with the 1941 markings, though!
Hi Doug - I also have a Freedom Locomotive on order from MTH. D T & I. Detroit Toledo and Ironton, this locomotive never pulled passenger cars. It was a loco for freight trains, only. MTH, shows a ship date of Nov. 20, 2016. I always purchase local road names.
Gary
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Rocky Mountaineer posted:Laidoffsick posted:... I had already bought the GGD Daylight cars so of course I had to buy the Sunset GS4 when it came out so it would all match. ...
I'm not so much a rivet counter with all the details, but I do appreciate reasonably close color-matching. One would have thought that the different importers would have matched the "Daylight" color scheme. But that's not the case at all. I've always favored Lionel's rendition of the Daylight colors (in locomotives and passenger cars) with the solid orange stripe sandwiched around the orange-tinted red stripes. But Sunset's center orange stripe is clearly more of a golden orange, and I seem to recall K-Line's Daylight color-scheme somewhat similar in that regard.
I'll leave it to the experts to say which is more accurate, but my eyes definitely prefer Lionel's Daylight color scheme regardless how true to the prototype it may (or may not be).
David
I agree as to the color variations and Lionel's superior color shades, as I stated in my post above. All the others are washed out, to various extents, and the K-Line version was as well. The real engine has rich, well-saturated colors.
BREEZINUP,
You can not compare those colors in your posted video to the original SP Daylight colors of the 1940s. Currently, the 4449 is painted in Dupont Imron (epoxy) paint, and although they are an exact match to the original paint formulas from the 1940s/1950s, the Imron paint simply does not fade. The original paint from the 1940s/1950s was either acrylic lacquer or enamel, and faded fairly quickly in the California sun.
