Legacy Auxiliary Water Tenders - 2020v1

After doing a little online research, I get why Lionel chose this type to use for a variety of water tenders, but the one pictured in the catalog looks like the same one they used on the recent LEGACY J3a Hudson rerelease, which is actually wrong. As pictured above, the Chessie Steam Special and the T-1 Freedom train water tenders are actually a repainted tender from the New York Central L3a class Mohawks series.

Lionel has made the L3a Mohawk in the past, first in 1990 when Mike Wolf was under contract with Richard Kughn, and again in 1998. I'm not sure if the tooling for the engine and tender got destroyed in the 20 some years since, but the catalog states the tenders will measure 12" long, which IS longer than the 10 or so inch long Hudson tenders and about the same length as the Berkshire tenders, so I guess we'll have to wait and see until a prototype surfaces.

If the tenders are correct, I hope we see a LEGACY L3a Mohawk w/ whistle steam in the line soon...

The catalog says 12" length on these AWTs, which would be the scale size of the converted Mohawk tender on which these models are based. However, the catalog image is of a short version of the tender. I expect that the text is correct and the image isn't, but if no one else finds out soon I'll ask Lionel. 

I emailed Lionel to inquire about which tender they were going to use - the Hudson in the picture or the Mohawk (correct).  I'll reply to this string when they email me back (if they do).

I'm not sure I'll get one though as I made one myself from a Mohawk Tender I got on the For Sale section years ago:

Thanks, guys, for the helpful replies. I, too, noticed the description that said they were 12” long.  Scaling that against the photo, these things seemed really big/tall. In any case, it seems like they will be really big in comparison to the UP and N&W water tenders. I like that they released an undecorated one.

Rider Sandman posted:

Thanks, guys, for the helpful replies. I, too, noticed the description that said they were 12” long.  Scaling that against the photo, these things seemed really big/tall. In any case, it seems like they will be really big in comparison to the UP and N&W water tenders. I like that they released an undecorated one.

I think they will be close in length than to the UP style tender than you think.  I think what makes them look so long is that aren't nearly as tall.  I Have 3001 tender I've been saving for a CSS aux tender.  I hope Lionel does this one correct to save me all that work.

C&O Allie posted:

I emailed Lionel to inquire about which tender they were going to use - the Hudson in the picture or the Mohawk (correct).  I'll reply to this string when they email me back (if they do).

I'm not sure I'll get one though as I made one myself from a Mohawk Tender I got on the For Sale section years ago:

Thank you. Please let us know.  Yours is still the best.  

C&O Allie posted:

I emailed Lionel to inquire about which tender they were going to use - the Hudson in the picture or the Mohawk (correct).  I'll reply to this string when they email me back (if they do).

I'm not sure I'll get one though as I made one myself from a Mohawk Tender I got on the For Sale section years ago:

Good luck Allan on getting a response from Lionel. I'm still waiting to see if Lionel will eventually have the Bush funeral train cars sold separately. I've been waiting almost 3 months for that answer.

And Thank you again for the help with my CSS Aux Tender. #Love it! as they say.....

Jayhawk500 posted:

C&O Allie posted:

I emailed Lionel to inquire about which tender they were going to use - the Hudson in the picture or the Mohawk (correct).  I'll reply to this string when they email me back (if they do).

I'm not sure I'll get one though as I made one myself from a Mohawk Tender I got on the For Sale section years ago:

Good luck Allan on getting a response from Lionel. I'm still waiting to see if Lionel will eventually have the Bush funeral train cars sold separately. I've been waiting almost 3 months for that answer.

And Thank you again for the help with my CSS Aux Tender. #Love it! as they say.....

Chris,

It looks great!!

Allan

jeremy ferrell posted:

Rider Sandman posted:

Thanks, guys, for the helpful replies. I, too, noticed the description that said they were 12” long.  Scaling that against the photo, these things seemed really big/tall. In any case, it seems like they will be really big in comparison to the UP and N&W water tenders. I like that they released an undecorated one.

I think they will be close in length than to the UP style tender than you think.  I think what makes them look so long is that aren't nearly as tall.  I Have 3001 tender I've been saving for a CSS aux tender.  I hope Lionel does this one correct to save me all that work.

 

Jeremy,

If it is the wrong one, I can send you the decals I used for mine.

The catalog states the tender is from the Mohawk and reinforced by Ryan as well.

Charlie

C&O Allie posted:

jeremy ferrell posted:

Rider Sandman posted:

Thanks, guys, for the helpful replies. I, too, noticed the description that said they were 12” long.  Scaling that against the photo, these things seemed really big/tall. In any case, it seems like they will be really big in comparison to the UP and N&W water tenders. I like that they released an undecorated one.

I think they will be close in length than to the UP style tender than you think.  I think what makes them look so long is that aren't nearly as tall.  I Have 3001 tender I've been saving for a CSS aux tender.  I hope Lionel does this one correct to save me all that work.

 

Jeremy,

If it is the wrong one, I can send you the decals I used for mine.

Thank you Sir.

Rider Sandman posted:

What I’d really like is a re-release (in Legacy) of the N&W water tenders, but I’m beginning to think that isn’t in the cards given the recent number of N&W steamers without it making an appearance. Thoughts?

Well, assuming Lionel does produce a Legacy Auxiliary Water Tender buy the boards at the annual Lionel parts sale. Then get one of the N&W brass TMCC auxiliary water tenders and swap the boards.

Straight from the Lionel Ryan and Dave program today online.  These aux tenders are NOT using the Mohawk style tenders. 

I guess it's close enough. Bit of a downer though, but not bad.

To me it's not close enough.  Substituting a smaller tender for a larger one like what they are doing (especially when the tooling should be available since they used it twice before) is unacceptable.  Why not do it right the first time and make people happy?  I guess they are banking on people saying "I guess it's close enough."  That tender might look ok with a RailKing model, but not the scale Chessie and AFT T1s.

This stinks (for those who wanted one).  This is effectively what it will look like. My first version was using a Scale Hudson Tender before I made the scale versions:

Here's info on the Chessie Steam Special auxiliary tender:

https://themetrains.com/chessi...2101A-aux-tender.htm

I'd like to have one for my MTH Chessie 2101, but I'll wait until Lionel delivers it and I can see if it actually matches the prototype. What's pictured in the catalog looks too short.

Ken

Ken,

See DaveSlie's response above. It was confirmed earlier today that it will be the shorter J3a tender and not the correct L3a tender.

Bill,

Thanks. Looks like I will skip this one. Why pay a premium price for something that's just not right?

Ken

Gilly@N&W posted:

Rider Sandman posted:

What I’d really like is a re-release (in Legacy) of the N&W water tenders, but I’m beginning to think that isn’t in the cards given the recent number of N&W steamers without it making an appearance. Thoughts?

Well, assuming Lionel does produce a Legacy Auxiliary Water Tender buy the boards at the annual Lionel parts sale. Then get one of the N&W brass TMCC auxiliary water tenders and swap the boards.

Great idea, Tom. I’ll try to find the brass tender before this fall’s sale unless by some chance the N&W tender shows up in the v2 catalog. 

Rider Sandman posted:

Gilly@N&W posted:

Rider Sandman posted:

What I’d really like is a re-release (in Legacy) of the N&W water tenders, but I’m beginning to think that isn’t in the cards given the recent number of N&W steamers without it making an appearance. Thoughts?

Well, assuming Lionel does produce a Legacy Auxiliary Water Tender buy the boards at the annual Lionel parts sale. Then get one of the N&W brass TMCC auxiliary water tenders and swap the boards.

Great idea, Tom. I’ll try to find the brass tender before this fall’s sale unless by some chance the N&W tender shows up in the v2 catalog. 

If you just get the shell/chassis, I have 2 pair of the N&W trucks that are left over from another Aux Tender modification I did.  I took the MTH Chessie Safety Special tender and modified it to be more like the prototype, which included changing the trucks out.  I have no need for the trucks I took off.

From what I've seen, it looks like it resembles the K-Line Hudson or Berkshire tender tooling.

Peter Araujo posted:

From what I've seen, it looks like it resembles the K-Line Hudson or Berkshire tender tooling.

Peter,

It is the Lionel Tooling for the Hudson Tender.  You can tell because of the ladder.  It is the same as mine above and my tender is a Lionel one.

C&O Allie posted:

Peter Araujo posted:

From what I've seen, it looks like it resembles the K-Line Hudson or Berkshire tender tooling.

Peter,

It is the Lionel Tooling for the Hudson Tender.  You can tell because of the ladder.  It is the same as mine above and my tender is a Lionel one.

K-Line Lima Demonstrator Berkshire tender. I've looked at some photos and compared.

Too bad the plan is not to use the correct tender.  I wanted one for my Freedom Train, but will not be ordering one that is not correct.  I guess it is back to my original plan of finding one from a Mohawk and making some decals.......  If Lionel changes their mind and uses the correct shell, I could live with what ever trucks they put under it.

Rolland

Peter Araujo posted:

C&O Allie posted:

Peter Araujo posted:

From what I've seen, it looks like it resembles the K-Line Hudson or Berkshire tender tooling.

Peter,

It is the Lionel Tooling for the Hudson Tender.  You can tell because of the ladder.  It is the same as mine above and my tender is a Lionel one.

K-Line Lima Demonstrator Berkshire tender. I've looked at some photos and compared.

Peter,

You are correct - my mistake.  So it will be slightly longer than the Hudson Tender in my picture, but shorter than the Mohawk Tender in my current version.

RLaHaie posted:

Too bad the plan is not to use the correct tender.  I wanted one for my Freedom Train, but will not be ordering one that is not correct.  I guess it is back to my original plan of finding one from a Mohawk and making some decals.......  If Lionel changes their mind and uses the correct shell, I could live with what ever trucks they put under it.

Rolland

Rolland,

Here are the decals I used for my version.  I printed the sides on clear decal paper and the numbers for the back on white decal paper.  Use the top set of the side decals for the words.

RLaHaie posted:

Too bad the plan is not to use the correct tender.  I wanted one for my Freedom Train, but will not be ordering one that is not correct.  I guess it is back to my original plan of finding one from a Mohawk and making some decals.......  If Lionel changes their mind and uses the correct shell, I could live with what ever trucks they put under it.

Rolland

They don't have the correct tooling  Is how Ryan implied it in the video.   Sounded like one of those hey we don't have it and ehh it close enough.   Mike's has the tooling.  Maybe we can petition them to do the right ones for us lol

this should be it 

If they implied in the Facebook Live that MTH has the tooling, then they really don't know their product history. Lionel did a second run of the Mohawk in 1998 which is long after they parted ways with MTH.

mountain482 posted:

If they implied in the Facebook Live that MTH has the tooling, then they really don't know their product history. Lionel did a second run of the Mohawk in 1998 which is long after they parted ways with MTH.

I think I confused you.  I'm sorry.  They noted that their Mohawk tender was not the correct length.    I was just saying MTH has the correct length tender.

I was not confused but thought they may have been passing blame or making excuses for not doing it the right way based on what you said.  I wasn't able to watch it earlier today. 

It does beg the question though: where is Lionel's tooling for the Mohawk tender?

I have to correct my earlier statement.

Ryan clearly spoke about the Mohawk tender as the prototype for this tender on the Notch6 podcast (check out the audio around 53:50). However, on the Dave and Ryan Show, he did mention that the tender model was not from the Mohawk.

My understanding from the show, is that tooling money for this catalog was depleted, and yes, this one will have to be close enough. As usual, if you absolutely need the correct/prototypical model, you can wait, build your own, get the MTH version or simply purchase this offering and understand there is a compromise.

Charlie