Chief, I have tested a couple of different booster circuits. As a comparison:
A Legacy Base can source only 7 mA before it drops below 3.5V output.
A TMCC Base can source about 52 mA at 3.5V.
Booster #1 can source 57 mA at 3.5V.
Booster #2 can source 70 mA at 4V.
The Boosters receive data from a standard Legacy output port.
A TPC or similar device takes about 2 mA on the DAT line.
The boosters would certainly overcome problems that people are having with Z-Stuff data drivers.
Any chance of posting one of those booster circuits here?
quote:Any chance of posting one of those booster circuits here?
Not at this time. I am still in "product development" mode.
Dale I will be contacting you about the middle of January when I have some time off and can focus on this 100%. I also am doing some other things as well at this time. Will talk to you about it all at a later time. chief
quote:here is another question.
can you clone a legacy base?
Read the LUG meeting notes. Very soon!
quote:Originally posted by MartyE:quote:here is another question.
can you clone a legacy base?
Read the LUG meeting notes. Very soon!
I read those and did not remember that.
Thanks!
quote:Originally posted by Dale Manquen:
Chief, I have tested a couple of different booster circuits. As a comparison:
A Legacy Base can source only 7 mA before it drops below 3.5V output.
A TMCC Base can source about 52 mA at 3.5V.
Booster #1 can source 57 mA at 3.5V.
Booster #2 can source 70 mA at 4V.
The Boosters receive data from a standard Legacy output port.
A TPC or similar device takes about 2 mA on the DAT line.
The boosters would certainly overcome problems that people are having with Z-Stuff data drivers.
I went ahead on this and built the 2N3904/2N3906 circuit. It works well with the DZ2001 driver. I could only get a 6vdc wall wart at Radio Shack this evening, but I think that is even a better choice than the 5vdc that the TMCC base uses. I made the booster in the style of the Z driver with DB9s on the input and output of the small glass perf board and a dc connector for the wall wart. So it's nice and compact. The output has no problem driving the TPC with the DZ2001 in series of course. The output to the TPC (only one of them that I bought for testing...) shows about 6 volt pulses at the dat and com. I did not test it to see what the maximum current it can source and still maintain 4 volt pulses, but I think it'll easily drive more than a dozen TPC loads plus the 12 ma for the stock DZ2001 by looking at the gain of the 2N3906, etc. And, the Z driver puts out 4 volt pulses which will go to the Z switches motors. I'm driving the Z driver LED with about 12 ma, so it should put out about that to the Z switch drivers. I assume that is adequate since it's DZ stuff driving DZ stuff.
Fascinating thread. Thanks for helping solve this problem.
quote:Originally posted by Dale Manquen:
After consultation with Lionel, I have decided to offer the Booster as a Y cable, providing a high-current 0-5V swing for controllers while retaining the present +/-8V true RS232 swing for future Lionel products.
My circuit differs from the TMCC Base circuit, and it provides overcurrent protection.
The Booster with power supply will be $30 plus $5.50 for Priority Mail shipping in the U.S.
so how does one order this? $oo
Please contact me directly.
I can accept Visa/Mastercard, PayPal or check in advance.
dmanquen@msn.com
I can accept Visa/Mastercard, PayPal or check in advance.
dmanquen@msn.com
I just put an order in for a Legacy control system. I ordered it because users have stated the TMCC engines work better. I have no legacy engines so I have no real reason to upgrade at this point in my life since I have 15 devices between TPC's, ASC's and BPC's. My Order is cancelled
quote:Originally posted by Loose-Caboose:
I just put an order in for a Legacy control system. I ordered it because users have stated the TMCC engines work better. I have no legacy engines so I have no real reason to upgrade at this point in my life since I have 15 devices between TPC's, ASC's and BPC's. My Order is cancelled
Little reason for that. If you have more to drive than Legacy base is able to, then it's a simple issue to use an amp like Dale is offering. There are benefits of Legacy, more than just the tmcc engines, and I think more benefits to come.
Chuck,
OK. It was more a feeling of Exasperation. How can a company wake up one day and decide to create a new product that cripples the amount of existing product they will sell to four units (TPC's, OTC's, ASC's, BPC's, etc.) with each unit costing nearly $100. Now the Same new product is also tasked with eliminating third parties from entering the market with better "Mousetraps". Dale then calls Lionel and they set him up in a cottage industry fixing their design. I am surprised this limitation was not realized before this time. Maybe I missed something in this travail. People are concerned about the software limitations of 99 ID's when it is a hardware limitation of four units of formerly IC Control's product.
Congratulations Dale in your startup business. I will be one of your first of many happy customers you should have once this gets out. There has to be tens of hundreds of layouts that exhaust the limitation of four units.
OK. It was more a feeling of Exasperation. How can a company wake up one day and decide to create a new product that cripples the amount of existing product they will sell to four units (TPC's, OTC's, ASC's, BPC's, etc.) with each unit costing nearly $100. Now the Same new product is also tasked with eliminating third parties from entering the market with better "Mousetraps". Dale then calls Lionel and they set him up in a cottage industry fixing their design. I am surprised this limitation was not realized before this time. Maybe I missed something in this travail. People are concerned about the software limitations of 99 ID's when it is a hardware limitation of four units of formerly IC Control's product.
Congratulations Dale in your startup business. I will be one of your first of many happy customers you should have once this gets out. There has to be tens of hundreds of layouts that exhaust the limitation of four units.
Jim,
Although I don't really have any information on the evolution of the command bases leading to a base that is limited in sourcing current to Lionel devices, I'm guessing that Lionel blundered into this design without realizing the unintended consequences. They were probably simply going for an RS232 compatible serial connection with the PC for future product features. I'm wondering if the new Legacy bases just now out are changed in this regard. But putting the history of all this aside, I'm more interested in learning what the issue is and how to solve it.
As to setting up the cottage industry, My thinking is that none of us needed or got any critical technical help or permissions to solve this issue other than it's always nice to keep the lines of technical communications open and that we're all in this hobby together.
BTW, the layout of one of my train club members operated flawlessly the other evening with with an amp I built connected to the Legacy base to drive the DZ2001 driver and a couple TPCs.
And also I should say, the only information I have on loads to the Legacy base is the requirement of the TPCs and the DZ2001. I don't know if the BPCs, etc. are part of the issue as to how much of a load they are or not.
Although I don't really have any information on the evolution of the command bases leading to a base that is limited in sourcing current to Lionel devices, I'm guessing that Lionel blundered into this design without realizing the unintended consequences. They were probably simply going for an RS232 compatible serial connection with the PC for future product features. I'm wondering if the new Legacy bases just now out are changed in this regard. But putting the history of all this aside, I'm more interested in learning what the issue is and how to solve it.
As to setting up the cottage industry, My thinking is that none of us needed or got any critical technical help or permissions to solve this issue other than it's always nice to keep the lines of technical communications open and that we're all in this hobby together.
BTW, the layout of one of my train club members operated flawlessly the other evening with with an amp I built connected to the Legacy base to drive the DZ2001 driver and a couple TPCs.
And also I should say, the only information I have on loads to the Legacy base is the requirement of the TPCs and the DZ2001. I don't know if the BPCs, etc. are part of the issue as to how much of a load they are or not.
