Legacy Lionel NYC F-12e

What version of F12  is it, item #?

There was a recent offering and an older one that was one  Lionels very first Legacy equipped locos offered back about'07.

Is it possible the oddyssey is turned off?

RickO posted:

What version of F12  is it, item #?

There was a recent offering and an older one that was one  Lionels very first Legacy equipped locos offered back about'07.

Is it possible the oddyssey is turned off?

Hi RickO,

Its a 6-11150 and no,  the odyssey is not turned off.

Following this thread!  Despite the O31 rating, those are sharp curves for this loco's longish wheelbase (compare to a 773 for example.)  Rubber tires don't allow the wheels to skid and it has one-piece side rods, so the axles can't move very far laterally either.  So as soon as you enter a curve there's a dramatic increase in friction and corresponding load on the motor.

I'm guessing your issue is a circuit board or speed sensor.  That being said, I have a Legacy Atlantic that's contemporary with the 6-11150.  Mine exhibits a stuttering or shuddering at certain speed steps which I couldn't resolve.  I think mine is due to improper mesh between the worm wheel and the worm gear on the motor shaft.  Unfortunately on both the Atlantic and the F-12, Lionel cut some corners by pressing the worm gear onto the motor shaft, instead of using a separate gearbox to ensure that proper mesh is maintained at all times.  Would have gladly paid $100-$200 more for the better design.

Tight curves are always a bad idea. Tight curves are sometimes "necessary" - but if you can get rid of the 036, everything will work better.

I have the "old" TMCC version of this loco; runs very well, even with early-ish Odyssey. Just needs a chuff-rate improvement. 

As stated above, the Lionel F-2/F-12 is not a small loco - it's a good scale model. The traction tires can be an issue in tight curves. If it runs fine in all other (larger) curves, I'd ignore it and try to change my layout a bit.

The 031 min has got to be a misprint if it’s a scale engine. 

romiller49 posted:

The 031 min has got to be a misprint if it’s a scale engine. 

I have a Lionel 6-82272 Legacy New Haven 4-6-0 Ten-Wheeler steam locomotive that looks to me like it's the same engine as the 6-11150. The box and manual call for O-31 but the Lionel website says Min Curve O-42 / O-54 Recommended. I run mine conventionally on O-54 without any problems so far.

MELGAR

Thanks Blake. I thought it was a much larger engine being scale.

romiller49 posted:

Thanks Blake. I thought it was a much larger engine being scale.

No problem Rod!

Thanks for your input 

MELGAR posted:

I have a Lionel 6-82272 Legacy New Haven 4-6-0 Ten-Wheeler steam locomotive that looks to me like it's the same engine as the 6-11150. The box and manual call for O-31 but the Lionel website says Min Curve O-42 / O-54 Recommended. I run mine conventionally on O-54 without any problems so far.

MELGAR

Well if that’s the case Melgar, then Lionel really dropped the ball on this one.

Thanks

Ted S posted:

Following this thread!  Despite the O31 rating, those are sharp curves for this loco's longish wheelbase (compare to a 773 for example.)  Rubber tires don't allow the wheels to skid and it has one-piece side rods, so the axles can't move very far laterally either.  So as soon as you enter a curve there's a dramatic increase in friction and corresponding load on the motor.

I'm guessing your issue is a circuit board or speed sensor.  That being said, I have a Legacy Atlantic that's contemporary with the 6-11150.  Mine exhibits a stuttering or shuddering at certain speed steps which I couldn't resolve.  I think mine is due to improper mesh between the worm wheel and the worm gear on the motor shaft.  Unfortunately on both of these locos, Lionel cut some corners by pressing the worm gear onto the motor shaft, instead of using a separate gearbox to ensure that proper mesh is maintained at all times.  Would have gladly paid $100-$200 more for the better design.

Thanks Ted S!

ill learn to deal with it

MELGAR posted:

I have a Lionel 6-82272 Legacy New Haven 4-6-0 Ten-Wheeler steam locomotive that looks to me like it's the same engine as the 6-11150. The box and manual call for O-31 but the Lionel website says Min Curve O-42 / O-54 Recommended. I run mine conventionally on O-54 without any problems so far.

MELGAR

The Lionel website for the Legacy New Haven Ten Wheeler is:

http://www.lionel.com/products...omotive-816-6-82272/

It says "Min Curve O-42 / O-54 Recommended." The listing is from the 2014 Volume 2 Lionel catalog. I believe yours is the same model with a different road name. The length of both the 6-82272 and 6-11150 is listed as 19-1/2 inches. I believe the website for 6-82272 is correct but the box and manual, which say O-31, are not. I'm attaching a picture of my model.

MELGAR

MELGAR posted:

The Lionel website for the Legacy New Haven Ten Wheeler is:

http://www.lionel.com/products...omotive-816-6-82272/

It says "Min Curve O-42 / O-54 Recommended." The listing is from the 2014 Volume 2 Lionel catalog. I believe yours is the same model with a different road name. The length of both the 6-82272 and 6-11150 is listed as 19-1/2 inches. I believe the website for 6-82272 is correct but the box and manual, which say O-31, are not. I'm attaching a picture of my model.

MELGAR

Well you’re right Melgar!  I wonder why Lionel would mark it as O31 min when it actually take O42 or higher?

I have both the both Legacy versions in NYC livery and both navigate O31 curves without any issues. 

Just saying...

Mike

ezmike posted:

I have both the both Legacy versions in NYC livery and both navigate O31 curves without any issues. 

Just saying...

Mike

Mike, if the tires are too thick, could that cause the issue?

thanks

Only if they are rubbing against the “brakes”. Both of mine have the original traction tire on them. 

I’m using Lionel tubular track. 

Mike

ezmike posted:

Only if they are rubbing against the “brakes”. Both of mine have the original traction tire on them. 

I’m using Lionel tubular track. 

Mike

Ok!  There is no rubbing and my track is fastrack.  Oh well,  it is what it is!

Blake, do you have a dealer or friend close by that has a layout with broader curves to try it on. That way you could narrow down whether it's the engine or the tight curves. 

Doug

trnluvr posted:

Blake, do you have a dealer or friend close by that has a layout with broader curves to try it on. That way you could narrow down whether it's the engine or the tight curves. 

Doug

Hey trnluvr,

actually, I did take it over to a friends house last night and ran it on his O72 layout.  It ran as smooth as anyone could want.  So with that being said, I guess the radius is to tight for a locomotive that is SUPPOSED to take an O31 according to the instruction manual and the description on the box.

Thanks

Some times those box markings can be a little misleading.

Danr posted:

Some times those box markings can be a little misleading.

That’s funny Danr!!

Something's goofy. I saw the Lionel engine right after it came out, and I was very impressed with the overall scale fidelity. I had a good visual reference at the time, as I owned a Precision Scale 2-R brass version of the same loco.

I can't begin to imagine the design calisthenics required to get the Lionel version to go around an O31curve--my 2R engine would barely handle a 36" radius curve.

Jeff C

leikec posted:

I can't begin to imagine the design calisthenics required to get the Lionel version to go around an O31curve--my 2R engine would barely handle a 36" radius curve.

The Lionel engine uses blind (flangeless) wheels on the middle driver axle. The brass engine probably does not. The Lionel engine likely also uses larger engine-to-tender spacing (longer drawbar) that allows the engine and tender to turn through a greater angle with respect to each other. On the pilot truck, the Lionel engine has smaller (less-than-scale) diameter wheels and larger-than-scale axle spacing (wheelbase), thus allowing the pilot truck to turn further before the wheels contact the cylinders.

The scale-sized drivers on the Lionel Ten-Wheeler and the extra spacing between the second and third driver axles increase its rigid wheelbase (which is 4-1/8 inches) relative to a traditionally-sized Lionel locomotive with three driver axles. So, I'm not surprised if it can't negotiate O-31 or even O-36.

MELGAR

Well fellas,  I said to myself, self, what the heck, so pulled off the traction tires that I thought were good and replaced them with a brand new set.  The locomotive does not hesitate to negotiate this O36 curve anymore.  It runs as smooth as silk!  Thanks for all of the input guys.  If I had just looked for the simplest thing first!

Blake

Good news. Thanks for posting.

romiller49 posted:

Good news. Thanks for posting.

You’re welcome sir!