Legacy Software version 1.4 available for download NOW!

Computer nerd here.....Now that I have it downloaded to my computer what do I need to do to get it loaded into my Base and Cab. Please explain in laymen's terms. Thanks in advance.....

You need the LSU software,

Software here: http://www.lionel.com/RegisterLegacy/download.cfm

LSU Manual  here http://www.lionel.com/media/se...tilityUsersGuide.pdf

At least one black Legacy module

And a way to hook your Legacy base to your computer Serial port to Legacy or USB/Serial Adapter to Legacy Base and your Y cable that came with the base

Once you have made the black module you update it just like using the blue modules

First off, you have to have a serial port on your computer.  If you don't have one, you will have to buy a USB <-> Serial adapter. This Vantec USB to Serial Adapter is one I've personally used and it works perfectly on Windows 7 32 or 64 bits.  I'm pretty sure it'll work with any previous version of Windows as well.

Once you get the serial port installed (if necessary), configure it for COM1 or COM2.

Next, you need the Lionel Legacy black module(s) to load it into, you can't directly update from the LSU software.

Once you have the Legacy base connected to the computer with the serial cable, you can use the LSU to create the BASE and CAB2 modules.  There is a button to burn a file to a module, so it's very easy.

Then you do the standard update as described in your manual for each of them. 

Well this is interesting.  My comment from this morning seems to have gone missing but yet at least one person has commented on it.

As to hardware flow control, if the Legacy system requires that, I'm really sorry for the design decisions that lead to that.  Designing routers where I need to download MB of software images, I've never needed HW flow control.  Honestly, xmodem, ymodem and zmodem all take care of image transfers without flow control, but c'le ve.  Even when I've used HW flow control on my mac, I've not had a problem.

As to problems, on V1.3 trying to pull up loco's based on their full number is not reliable.  Pulling them by 2-digit works.  Also the stack for locos seems to have bugs if you scroll too many times or too fast.  All easy to reproduce.

I will reiterate my comment that your decisions to not allow users to purchase upgrade modules is a very un-customer centric response.  

I guess I'll be surprised if at some point they don't have the upgrade modules for purchase.  After all, they have to produce them for the new sets anyway.

Of course, it's much more cost-effective to buy the black modules and use them for all the upgrades.

If lionel does not offer a send unit in for upgrade or let us buy the modules it will be the end of my lionel engine purchases.  I am not interested learning any more computer stuff and want the module or be able to send in my unit,  Seeing lionel is not going to do this all of us computer nerds will be left out.  Way to go lionel leave out a portion of your buyers who want to run engines and not learn any more computer.  I am 68 years old and I guess lionel thinks I am no longer a customer.

Send me a PM with your name address and a telephone # I can reach you on and I will send you the CAB and Base 1.4 modules I made.  You can throw a few bucks in the envelope to cover the postage when you return them to me.

Unless you've actually tried to procedure first, to fly off the handle and make statements about never buying brand xyz again, holds very little weight in my opinion.

All I can say is to try it, ask questions if you need to, let us help, and then re-evaluate.  I don't think it's worth getting all bent out of shape over until you've tried.  There are a lot of folks here that are willing to help. 

It seems the holdup is the elusive black update modules.  My local dealer doesn't plan to order any.  Lionel's online store charges $10 shipping for the $19.98 module (and you can read the former "holdup" in two different ways).  Has anyone tried adapting a usb keyfob in place of the module? 

Did you do a scan on eBay?  I saw them offered for $19.95 with free shipping.

Legacy Writable Module on eBay

Thanks for the link - there was one left and I ordered it.

The recepticals on the CAB and Base aren't USB.

You can do the upgrade with one, you just have to write one, update, then write the other and update.  I got two, just so I could have them.

Note that the seller has relisted the item, so obviously he has more.

Lionel 6-37125 Writable Module

Dave at mercerjuction has plenty of them.

http://mercerjunction.com/

The remarks from Mike Reagan about downloading

updates for the Legacy system has an error. The unzipped

file is not called a hex file, it is called a bas2 or cab2 file.

The directions in the LSU are correct and they work.

If you think the Lionel upgrade process is complex, how will you ever deal with the procedure for the other major three rail command/control system.  Take a mosey over to the MTH ProtoSound Website and take a gander at their update instructions!   Strap that on for size before you go abandoning Lionel because of what is a very simple upgrade procedure!

Not only do you need the serial port, that's just the tip of the iceberg.  Here's a small part of the procedure, you can look the the whole thing in the link above.

You will also need three types of cables to update your TIU and remote. If you need to make a shopping trip, I've included the Radio Shack part numbers in the list below for cables that will do the job, but comparable products are available at many other stores.

1) M/F 9-pin serial cable RS#26-117

2) 4-wire telephone handset cord (the curly cord) RS#279-291

3) 1/8inch M/M stereo audio patch cable RS#42-2497

Gunrunner

You forgot about the clamp to hold down the power button on the remote for what could be up to a 4 minute procedure just for it.

I just really think folks need to give it a shot first before getting worked up.  If nothing else an enterprising forum member could buy black modules and charge for upgrades.  Hopefully not more than the cost of the modules and shipping.

The files themselves are Hex file, they extension you are seeing is only so you know which one is which ans the LSU recognizes it

Defintion of HEX . Intel HEX is a file format for conveying binary information for applications like programming microcontrollers, EPROMs, and other kinds...

You're right, and I was reading about that and laughing! I just got the MTH DCS system and was looking for the upgrade procedure, and I was floored by the length of the tutorial!  I'm still gathering up all the cords I need to do the update!

Good idea about the upgrades, that would make the process the same as before for folks that don't want to do the computer dance.

I do understand that this *IS* rocket science for some people.  I understand computer stuff fine but in other areas I am totally lost.  So I am perfectly willing to help out by creating upgrade modules and/or updating systems.  My e-mail is in my profile.  Whoever needs help with this just needs to drop me a note.

I like to help out to but I think it's important for people to try first.  I'd much rather walk someone through it and have them successfully create a module than just doing it for them.  I think in the long run it benefits us all.

It seems there is no one not willing to help out. I'd much rather help them do it for themselves than have to rely on someone every time an upgrade is released.

At the LUG meetings if folks so desire, we will be more than happy to walk them through the procedure with them as they create their modules but we have decide not to do upgrades for them.

Worse case scenario, if someone cannot program the black module, wouldn't it be a good opportunity for the LHS to tack $5 onto the price of the purchased black module?

I would think that some or most LHS would do it for free to enhance the sale and or future sales....

Dennis

My thought exactly.  If I was a LHS owner I would offer this service for free.  I would also still take the few minutes though to show how it is done as a bonus service.

Pretty much of you can attach a file to email you have the skills to do this.

You click a button in the LSU software, find the 1.4 upgrade file and the LSU takes off care of the rest. After that it's just like upgrading with the blue module

I think the stumbling block here is the serial port.  I'm surprised there isn't a "recommended" specific list of make/model of USB<->Serial adapters that are known to work with common Windows versions and the Legacy base.

I thought the LSU manual specified one, but it's not in front of me to verify.  But so far I haven't had any troubles with the  cheapo one I got

They do specify one Chris, I'd like to see several.

In any case, you have to install drivers (simple I know), and potentially change the COM port ID to one compatible with the LSU.  When I installed my adapter, for instance, it picked COM8 for some reason.  Obviously, I changed it to one of the lower numbers.

I know a lot of people that are terrified to do anything that changes the configuration of the machine, probably the root of the issue.

The LSU gives you a pull down to select, my machine skips between 2 different com ports, I just click on the LSU pull down menu and try the other port if the LSU doesn't see the base. No machine config needed just change a setting in the LSU.

Compared to the days when I worked for AOL and you could only choose COM 1-4 and Win95 always installed the modem on COM 5, this is easy. IF it doesn't see the base on one port use the pull down menu to see the second

Like I said Chris, all this stuff is simple for computer literate folks.  I'm approaching this from the viewpoint of "appliance" computer users.  You know, and I know, that it's pretty simple.  We're not trying to convince each other.

The reason the mth upgrades is easy for me, is I   just send my units into mth and for 20 bucks they program it for me.  You cant get it any more easy than that. Yes, you can get a module from lionel in the mail.  Sometimes it takes a radical comment to draw attention to the fact that other methods are needed.  Hopefully I have done that.

Plus I live in the good old rural midwest where all we have for internet is dial up. We are barely 21st century here but boy the pace of life and expenses put the busy city life for just the fast paced people. 

It isnt that we are dumb, we just do not care to live on the edge of computer technology and enjoy the ability to look at the country life and a town where you can park your car on main street with the keys in it and it will be there when you get back to it.

I;m waiting for lionel to do what mth does for upgrades, sell upgrade modules.

Since when did MTH sell upgrade modules?

The upgrade modules I ordered from Legacy Writable Module on eBay were delivered super-fast and I performed the upgrades on my two Legacy units.  It's a very simple procedure, much easier than updating MTH software.      

They do not sell them they reprogram your handheld and base.  Simple and guaranted to work in case you screw up.  I did also have one reprogramed when I went to york.  I just called mth and made an appt for 8.30 am at the repair dept and droped it off and was treated to a demonstration of their layour and display room.  I only have been to york once and that got me the latest rev.  I will send unit in again when a meaninfull update comes along.

I guess I don't understand your previous statement in that case.

I;m waiting for lionel to do what mth does for upgrades, sell upgrade modules.

What exactly were you trying to say here?

Now I am really impressed with the  Legacy System up to this point. My question is why on earth would you design a new system based on the ancient Serial Port interface? I would guess to make it compatible with old TMCC components. Problem with that is obvious in this thread. It complicates the updating, connecting and especially communication with modern computers. Having to install out of date USB to Serial Port adapters, cables and drivers is ridiculous and just adds to the complication and confusion. And yes I'm a geek in all operating systems.

Here's an idea for Lionel - sell a USB based adapter with the overpriced Black module. Have the LSU software install whatever drivers are required in the background normal install process. Include a Mac install for the USB device and a Mac LSU version too. Why **** off the 15 - 20% (and growing) of your Legacy customers that are Mac users? Please join the 21st century. Serial Ports are dead technology.

Rant over.

Sorry for the interruption.

MTH sells a service upgrade via sending in the unit or take it to a dealer or do it on the internet free.

Lionel will let you do it on the internet free but as of yet does not sell a service to send in your devices to upgrade for you.  Also qualified dealers should be made to do the service for you too as do mth dealers.

That is all I was trying to say.

A hobby store offering this service would get people into the store who might buy stuff.  To me it would be a win win deal, but what do I know about running a train store??

I'm a bit surprised that Lionel doesn't have USB capability.  Of course, my new (and not working) MTH DCS system also doesn't have USB capability either.  Since USB has been pretty much the standard for a bunch of years, and for the last three or four, it's virtually impossible to find a laptop with a serial port, I'd think both of these guys would have USB...

Lionel would have to retain a serial port to drive all the wired TMCC accessories, and to accept input from a CAB-1.  So any design would have to have USB and a serial port.  Not rocket science, but some increase in cost and complexity.

Most microcontrollers communicate with PCs via serial as well, so there are actually a lot of cheap USB-serial interfaces floating around.

There would also be the additional programming needed for USB support in the base.

Has anyone cracked open their Legacy base to see what chip is the "brain" of the system?

I had it open once, and I didn't think to check.

"Of course, my new (and not working) MTH DCS system also doesn't have USB capability either."

John the latest version of DCS that came out last year has both USB and Serial connections.

I already spoke with Charlie from Nassau Hobby Center about selling the black modules with the upgrades on them. I think we'll wait for 1.5 since 1.4 doesn't really add much.

So you guys are all going to buy modules at $20 a pop rather than 1 time because you'd rather gripe about the upgrade procedure than give it a try?  And what is it 1 module for $20 so you'll actually spend $40 each time there is a release? 

Holy crap on a cracker.