Latest Legacy Ten Wheelers

From what I've seen, your spidey sense may not be wrong. Theres video of the NKP on youtube and its the same color.

I've also seen that light grey color on most if not all of the recently delivered Northerns.

Its mind boggling really. For 15 or so years Lionel used pretty much the same dark graphite for the smokebox.

What happened?

Heres a snapshot of locos I have. Spanning from the 2002 j3a, on the far left, to the 2015 heavy Mike on the right.

The heavy Mike is a "tad" lighter, but is still perfectly acceptable IMO.

Oh and I also used to own one of the previous run Legacy F12e's . It was also the same color.

( Solid runner, I should have kept it)

I’m a little curious if this’ll be a thing on the other recent LEGACY steamers will have this color gray, too.

As far as I remember, this color thing didn’t really become an issue until 2018 with the silver smoke box 2-8-0’s.

I think though the new 2020 light Mike’s have the more accurate graphite gray, or at least the Southern 4501 does, but don’t quote me on that.

I was actually considering the Black custom run B&O that is shown above but passed on it for precisely that reason. My backup plan is to pick up the NYC version if they didn't mess it up with the awful primer color. I'm anxiously awaiting an image of the NYC so I can pull the trigger. What a shame if they mucked it up and I have to pass on that one too. I know Muffins has some or had some. He's usually great about posting actual product photos so hopefully we will know something soon. I passed on the H10 also for the same reason. Looks really bad IMO, I don't really care if it's prototypical or not.

BTW, nice lineup RickO!

If you can live without whistle steam, Lionel has already made two NYC Legacy ten wheelers plus a TMCC version.

Pete

Great line up Rick.

It is unfortunate that they seem to be using way too much light gray. Most engines seem to have changed to sparkle light gray which sort of reminds me of battleships. As a kid I built a bunch without painting a drop of paint on most save the tan decks. That changed when I got the giant Missouri and used a ton of paint to get the color scheme right. Besides three different grays, there was steel, bronze, silver and a few others. Yeah, the waterline, and the bottom red too(forgot those).

If these steam engines had the gritty graphite colors, they should on the models. Why get the spray paint can of light gray out and slap that on the engine where it don't belong? Ugh!

I just unboxed my Rutland. Mind you I have 3 Northern Pacifics that have re lettered into Rutlands. Everyone is dead on about the smokebox color being what looks like light gray primer. Actually the Rutland featured a very dark smokebox. The original dark gray I would still paint over. The class lights now feature clear lenses. I’m not a fan of glowing LED’s on steamers. If the green can be shut off with the remote fine. If not. They will be unplugged like the majority of my steamers.

Well they got the black right. When I ordered it. I kind of new the lettering would be white. That’s how the Mogul was. The Rutland’s lettering was more of a silver or aluminum. My other 10 wheelers are lettered with Highball Graphics decals.  They deal with discriminating modelers and I’m sure they got it right. Lionel seems to have got the font right. It’s just not stretched out enough. I really didn’t want to do a re letter job. I was hoping weathering might fix it. I run these a lot as doubleheads so it’s going to stand out from the others. At some point when it’s out of warranty I’ll re do it. I have a re done NP that’s already numbered 79. I may leave that as is. Switch out the headlights and renumber the new one.

I only ran it a few feet. The start up sounds are new. If your into smoke. It’s a good one and plenty comes out the whistle. A few issues cosmetically if your into the prototype. For the money. Pretty reasonable with it’s features considering what other engines are selling for.

What got my curiosity was the Alco builders plate. My NP’s are Baldwins. The Alco is correct for the Rutland. Not sure of the other models in this run as far as builders plates. Do these vary from one run to another. Seeing the indent in the shell houses the builder plate they are not interchangeable.

I just put my NYC 1232 on the track and programed it in. The classification lights came on white and I can't seem to change them to green. I hit the AUX2 button and held it and no lighting menu came up. Am I doing something wrong?

How's the smokebox Skip?

@Randy_B posted:

How's the smokebox Skip?

Not really liking the gray.  Can't imagine who or what is making these horrible paint decisions. Here's the new one.

And here's the older one which I like much better.

SMH

@NYC Fan posted:

Not really liking the gray.  Can't imagine who or what is making these horrible paint decisions.

Seems like when MR left, he took the graphite smokebox paint code with him....

@RickO posted:

Seems like when MR left, he took the graphite smokebox paint code with him....

They got it right on the 1297 4-6-6T not too long ago. I really gripes me when, like with the VIsion Niagara, you open up the box thinking it's going to look like the catalog photo and instead of the joy you expected, you're first thought is, "I'd like to get this thing repainted."

Come on Lionel, fix that grey paint.   First thing I did with my J3 is send to Harry to weather it get rid of that light grey on the smoke box.  Glad these are coming in good working order though.

It looks like you can get the green class light housings from Lionel if you want them but that doesn't fix the paint. I guess I will try to pick up a 1258 - at least you have that one already. Thanks for the info. Do the lights look like your other steamers once they are on now? I assume the photo is from before you reset them to default.

That is just sad. I was all excited to get my 972 until I saw this post.

Despite the wrong color one the smokeboxes, does anyone have the Reading & Northern version. I'm sure that one may not have this issue with the smokebox color since it's black.

@NYC Fan posted:

Not really liking the gray.  Can't imagine who or what is making these horrible paint decisions. Here's the new one.

And here's the older one which I like much better.

SMH

Yeah, like they stopped at the first coat. I know some paints(room paint) always comes out lighter the first coat, so you need a few, but this is just downright ridiculous. Almost like they didn't mix up the paint. Really makes me sad.

I saw the NKP ten wheeler in the flesh yesterday. It’s definitely battleship gray. Ugh. It sticks out like a sore thumb against the backdrop of every other Legacy (or Premier) steamer (like Rick’s awesome lineup above). The shame is Lionel otherwise did a fantastic job with it - Steve put a ton of effort in his design and it is awesome with all the whitewalls and so forth from the prototype photo.

It’s maddening this continues to go on.  It also seems to be some releases and not others. If you flip through Mr. Muffins latest email, the ten wheelers and their auto primer paint are at the top, yet scroll down and Steve has other Legacy stuff for sale with the perfect graphite paint. It really is a roll of the dice.

My guess is Harry is building a paint mask for the ten wheelers.....

This does raise an interesting thought: are we here on the forum just a small vocal minority about these constant paint screwups and, for the most part, everyone else just shrugs and keeps buying without even lodging a complaint?  It seems like at some point if enough people were pizzzzed, it would get fixed. I refuse to believe this is hard to fix - they apparently just don’t want to or don’t feel the need to.

To the extent anyone is taking a poll, I would certainly vote to take the time used to make 2 or 3 of the Facebook shows and direct it toward fixing paint colors.

I know its annoying to have to consider a repaint but it would not be that difficult on this engine. Headlight and class lights come off. You only have mask off the grab rails, builders plates, and rest of the body. I use liquid masker on the small parts.

Pete

It must have something to do with the Mr. Muffin's Trains exclusive version. That is what the artwork for that one called for, and I think that's what confused the factory on the smokebox color.

@NYC Fan posted:

I just put my NYC 1232 on the track and programed it in. The classification lights came on white and I can't seem to change them to green. I hit the AUX2 button and held it and no lighting menu came up. Am I doing something wrong?

If you haven’t already figured it out just simply press the classification light “on” button again to change the color. Same goes with the one with “T” in it for the tender lights

@Peter Araujo posted:

It must have something to do with the Mr. Muffin's Trains exclusive version. That is what the artwork for that one called for, and I think that's what confused the factory on the smokebox color.

I don’t think that’s true. Every road name that has surfaced so far has the same battleship gray paint. The two special runs from Pat’s at the top of the thread, Skip’s NYC version, etc - they all have it.  

@Rider Sandman posted:

[snip]

This does raise an interesting thought: are we here on the forum just a small vocal minority about these constant paint screwups and, for the most part, everyone else just shrugs and keeps buying without even lodging a complaint?  It seems like at some point if enough people were pizzzzed, it would get fixed. I refuse to believe this is hard to fix - they apparently just don’t want to or don’t feel the need to.

While it doesn't change the fact that far too many Lionel engines are arriving with wrong paint schemes, this post (on 4/17/21) by 3rd Rail's Scott Mann indicates that unless someone is onsite to oversee the painting process, 3rd Rail's factory will not correct paint issues.

@sdmann posted:

Hi Folks,
[snip]

I'll tell you a little story of how I usually check all these paint schemes and roads.

I go to China, and after a few days of getting my bearings, they have a desk for me at their office in the small assembly factory. They present me painted samples of shells, which I  hold, and  look at them, and google pictures of prototypes, and review our data for the road name. I use my years of experience of seeing good and bad color matches, and I instruct the factory make changes and corrections on the spot.  We have a color library that we refer to when there is a question of accuracy. Some times it take 4 trips to the painter (downstairs) to get the color spot on. I usually am there through the most critical parts of production to catch not only their errors, but ours.

Now, after being stuck here, I get digital photos of color matching with samples chips. I get engine by engine views of each side, front and back and sometimes the tops of the finished models. It's too late to correct color variations as they tell me, "Everything is already painted". It's too late to correct detailing errors, "Everything is already assembled". When I see pictures of these models they are basically finished.

[snip]

I believe this is the situation Lionel has found themselves in with their factory/factories and unless Lionel decides to have someone onsite overseeing the painting process, the incorrect paint colors will continue.

@Mikado 4501 posted:

I’m a little curious if this’ll be a thing on the other recent LEGACY steamers will have this color gray, too.

As far as I remember, this color thing didn’t really become an issue until 2018 with the silver smoke box 2-8-0’s.

I think though the new 2020 light Mike’s have the more accurate graphite gray, or at least the Southern 4501 does, but don’t quote me on that.

I think your timing estimate is about right - my first recollection was a 2018 special run NKP #757 Berk. All of the Berks, including it, showed up with the auto primer noses. Fortunately, there was a pre-order waiting list, so I was able to pass on mine without hurting the dealer.

I also think you’re correct on the latest Mike’s. There is another thread and they look great. It truly is a roll of the dice which makes it all the more frustrating - they clearly know how to do it right when they are paying attention.

@GregM posted:

While it doesn't change the fact that far too many Lionel engines are arriving with wrong paint schemes, this post (on 4/17/21) by 3rd Rail's Scott Mann indicates that unless someone is onsite to oversee the painting process, 3rd Rail's factory will not correct paint issues.

I believe this is the situation Lionel has found themselves in with their factory/factories and unless Lionel decides to have someone onsite overseeing the painting process, the incorrect paint colors will continue.

I think it’s a little different in Scott’s case versus the recurring problem on Legacy steamers. Every project Scott does is a specialty one-off and highly detailed. I 100% understand why close up and hands on monitoring is needed.  In this case, Lionel should be using the same color (graphite) on everything irrespective of the model or release (unless the box isn’t supposed to be graphite, of course). The point is, they should be able to get it right and repeat it - these aren’t one-offs - it should be the same thing over and again.

Also, inherent to this line of reasoning is that it’s actually the factory’s fault and not the designer putting paint codes on the drawings. Given how sloppy the editing is in the catalog, shipping schedule inaccuracies, etc, are we entirely sure the problem is “on the other end?”

The way I understand it and I could be wrong.  Working with Dave Olson on my mogul chaos many moons back.  Lionel gets production samples, when they can either green light the project or make changes.  Whether or not they are painted, I don’t know.  You would hope they are checked.

@Peter Araujo posted:

It must have something to do with the Mr. Muffin's Trains exclusive version. That is what the artwork for that one called for, and I think that's what confused the factory on the smokebox color.

Thing is the Hudson Mr. Muffin's ran had the right colors for the artwork, and Lionel okayed it. So it is the factory that is messing up the colors, much like the Polar Express awful colors, the weird off colors of everything that comes out that is supposed to be red, be blue, be green, they're all off what they should be. I was amazed that the Clown Challenger came out with the correct colors that the catalog had(or dang near close). So, someone is not doing something right with the paint, and there are no sample colors being looked at which is why we keep getting this mess. It's almost like Elf and the book Buddy's dad okays with two pages missing so the story doesn't make a lick of sense. What gives, right?

The most frustrating part to me is some get the nice color and some don't. I feel very fortunate I was able to get a PRR 2-10-4 and an NYC 4-6-6T with the more desirable color on the smokebox.

If you don't want to paint, some Neolube applied with a brush darkens the gray nicely. It goes on a little unevenly, but I like the effect. Here's my 2-8-0 after application:

@Professor Chaos posted:

If you don't want to paint, some Neolube applied with a brush darkens the gray nicely. It goes on a little unevenly, but I like the effect. Here's my 2-8-0 after application:

What color was the smoke box before? The "Niagara" silver or the Primer gray? This really looks great!

Wow, Chaos. That looks great!  What was the starter color?

Does the Neolube wear off or is it permanent? Does it come off when handled? Very dissatisfied with Lionel over this.

MELGAR

I didn't take a "before" picture, but it was a really ugly light gray.  You can see some blurry images of the same model here.

I'm not sure how durable the Neolube is. I think it's just graphite in an alcohol suspension, so it might come off with handling. But it's pretty easy to pick up the engine without touching the smokebox. And probably pretty easy to slather on more if it wears off.

@Dave NYC Hudson PRR K4 posted:

I was amazed that the Clown Challenger...

I lol’d at that pretty hard.

A Weaver (brass) 10 wheeler from the early 1990's.   One of my first train purchases.

@Peter Araujo posted:

Despite the wrong color one the smokeboxes, does anyone have the Reading & Northern version. I'm sure that one may not have this issue with the smokebox color since it's black.

Got the Reading & Northern 4-6-0 today from Charles Ro. Smokebox is black! I was worried when I was unpacking it. The blue seams fine also. Here's a few photos:

Here is a video from YouTube:

    Paint looks fine to me.

JohnB    

@MELGAR posted:

Does the Neolube wear off or is it permanent? Does it come off when handled? Very dissatisfied with Lionel over this.

MELGAR

It does come off... but, it doesn't come off from handling it.  I use it to blacken the center rail on atlas track.  I touched a few sections up 3 or 4 months ago and they are still very dark... so its pretty durable.

@JohnB posted:

Here is a video from YouTube:

    Paint looks fine to me.

JohnB    

If you watch the full video, as it comes into direct lighting, it’s the same battleship gray as the other road names.

@Rider Sandman posted:

If you watch the full video, as it comes into direct lighting, it’s the same battleship gray as the other road names.

Rider,

Yes and I thought your two B&O looked fine as well. However you are the one who bought the engines and you do have the right to be disappointed with the gray color of the smoke box. They are not as bright as the silver smoke boxes of earlier engines for me I would be happy that I got a Legacy engine for under $700 bucks, has great sound, smoke and a steam whistle too. However that grey paint is an issue for you......too bad but look at the bright side there are ways of darkening it if you are really that upset. Good luck with the engines happy railroading.

JohnB