Legacy/DCS Combination?

PS2 and PS3 engines ( from MTH) need a DCS system torun in command mode. PS3 engines can also run on DCC. There is a small DCS system from MTH that will allow you to control speed, volume and sound on PS2 and PS3 engines. 

Legacy engines with all their features enabled can only run on a Legacy system. 

TMCC can be run on either system. 

You can run DCS and TMCC and Legacy on the same layout. They work well independently of each other. 

All of the above can run in conventional mode. 

A small correction.  DCS can only run TMCC locomotives if it's cabled to a TMCC or Legacy command base, you still have to have the Lionel system.  However, you can run the TMCC locomotive from the DCS remote if you have the two connected together.

Good catch John, thanks. I read my reply a few times before posting and I knew I was missing something.

SoCalStu just an FYI. The cable to connect the two does come included in the Legacy system so you would not have to buy one. 

My layout is 100% MTH products, but I'm liking what Lionel is doing with their Legacy line. If you have MTH DCS (PS2 or PS3) and want to add Lionel Legacy, can both types of engines run at the same time?

Hi ARC, yes. Legacy and DCS can run at the same time anywhere on your layout. I run the two systems, Legacy and DCS, together everyday and have never had a single issue.

To add Legacy is simple. Just connect the Legacy signal wire to the track common and turn it on. 

Jeff, I hate to keep contradicting you, but I believe you may have to buy the MTH cable with the amplifier to run with the Legacy command base.  There seem to be problems using the cable that came with the Legacy system.

When I see someone who reports no problems running both Legacy and Dcs on the same layout, it makes me wonder why I have problems.  If I have a legacy engine on the same track as a ps2, I find that sometimes the Ps2 is not recognized by the dcs remote. I run the two systems independant and have both tmcc and Legacy wired together. If I remove the legacy engine, the the Ps2 engine will be recognized.  Someone tell me what I'am doing wrong.

This is a known issue, you will have to put a 22uh choke in series with the pickups of the Legacy locomotive and/or tender to solve this issue.  There is some combination of components across the track power inside some engines, tenders, and even lighted passenger cars, that will interfere with the DCS signal.

Thank you for the solution. Where can I find a description of how to put a 22uh coke in the legacy locomotive.

Well, it's going to vary with each locomotive, depending on the space available.  The primary issue is where to put the choke, it goes in series with ALL the pickup current coming in on the center rail.  This is the 6A 22uh RF Choke that I use.

Depending how your layout is wired this "could" create signal problems. Legacy operates fine in any wiring style, DCS favors star wiring, equal length wire runs, and the layout broken into individual blocks  for each pair of feeders. Its not to say that it won't work but if it doesn't it is likely due to one or more of the factors I mentioned.

How does adding a choke to the Legacy locomotive create signal problems?  That's the first time I've ever heard that.

My first year with DCS and I'm having a ball. Several open houses and everything worked fine. When I figure how to do it, I'll post some photos/videos. Layout: I used "homerun" wiring (different lengths) on a 140' double loop/over & under w/ no breaks/isolated blocks.

I usually run a J1e Hudson w/ several Lionel NYC heavywts and a NS SD70ACe w/ a long freight consist. I also have a "baby" remote command track w/ half-a-dozen Lionel Congressionals pulled by a GG1.  Other than the learning curve (and many thanks to you guys on the Forum), I've not had any significant problems. Beginners luck, maybe. 

Wally

Rick,

Depending how your layout is wired this "could" create signal problems

Unless you have personal, first-hand knowledge of this, please refrain from starting any rumors. If you do have first-hand knowledge, please share it with the rest of us.

I've read literally every post regarding DCS on this forum in the past 10 years and this has never been reported.

DCS favors star wiring, equal length wire runs, and the layout broken into individual blocks  for each pair of feeders.

FYI,

The equal length runs for DCS is a myth. The length of pairs doesn't have to be even close to the same length and it has be dispelled years ago.

I believe tight track and wiring connections are very important in my opinion for a good DCS signal. Loose connections are very detrimental to the DCS signal.

Rick,

Heres the rumor I heard Barry, right here on the forum from you. It doesn't sound like buss wiring to me.

Four points in regarfds to the "rumor" that you have attributed to me:

• It's no rumor, it's all true exactly as written, even though it was first posted about 10 years ago
• It states nothing as regards wire pairs having to be of equal length, although it presents a case for using twisted pair wires
• It has nothing to do with your caution against installing chokes in TMCC engines, which was the source of my complaint as regards your prior post
• What does any of this have to do with buss wiring? My complaint was that you implied that inserting chokes in TMCC engines could cause DCS signal strength problems, which it does not.

I'm one of the lucky ones. My cable worked in the Lgacy set to hook to the DCS. I had Legacy first and added DCS with only a glitch or two. I followed a few of Barry's recommendactions for DCS and it was a go. Been running side by side for 2 years, DCS and Legacy. I even have a few toggle switches ( good ones ) and have full 9 to 10 everywhere on my layout. 

When I hit a minor glitch I read and ask here and get right back running again

Thanks to all for making it all work.

Apparently this is a misunderstanding here Barry, I made no mention of chokes, maybe someone else did and pulled the post. I was merely referring to the general wiring of the original posters layout.

I used all OGR twisted-pair #14 wire, in 250 foot rolls, with the MTH terminal blocks. However, what did make a HUGE "DCS signal strength" problem, was I did NOT have a gap in the center rail, between each power feed. Once I took a razor saw and cut gaps, in the center rail only, between each and every power feed, the layout ran very well. The later up-grade to the Rev. L TIUs, made the layout even better.

I think the sequence of posting messages made it seem you were questioning my post about adding a 22uh choke to offending Legacy locomotives.  You didn't quote anything in the post, so it was hard to know what you were commenting on.  Obviously, that wasn't what you were talking about.

Thanks for the comments! When I bought my MTH DCS, I bought a great video produced by OGR magazine. It does a great of explaining DCS installation and operation including the addition of TMCC. I wonder if OGR plans to do it for Legacy? I think it would be helpful. What do others think?

I run both Legacy, ERR TMC and Proto2 all simultaneously.  You can run Legacy engines with DCS (using the MTH cable - I built my own before MTH created theirs). Because I use the MTH "ALL" command to start all the trains on a specific loop, I do not run my Legacy engines with the DCS controller. If you do the start "ALL" command (in DCS), the TMCC/Legacy engines go to the inactive area.  By the time I get the Legacy train started by adding it to the active area and moving it out, it has been run over by the first train in my Proto 2 string of trains that is followed by a Legacy train on the same loop.  7 of my 10 plus loops contain both Legacy/TMCC and Proto2 trains.  No problem at all using one hand with a DCS controller and Legacy controller in the other hand. (by the way I have a separate DCS controller for each of my loops with the engine numbers assigned to only to the controller for that loop.  It is nice to be able to purchase an engine based on its features and not the command system.

ARC,

   I questioned Rich in one of the other threads on this exact subject, whether he ever saw my question I do not know, but I got no answer to my question, the OGR DCS video is a great one, but I would like to see it updated with the Lionel Legacy info also.

PCRR/Dave