Let's see your PRR T1 4-4-4-4 Duplexes

I have the same Lionel Legacy T1 Duplex, it's a very nice locomotive, but for some reason it doesn't have the pulling power of similar sized locomotives.  Not bad, but oddly not super.

Here's my recently acquired Williams Brass T1 Duplex, I'm going to upgrade it with a PS/2 upgrade kit.  It has one massive DC motor with a gear drive to the two sets of wheels.

PRR built some of the most attractive and interesting steam locomotives.  This is a  Lionel TMCC.  I have almost no rolling stock from any RR east of the Mississippi, so I run my T1 and S2 with ATSF aluminum passenger cars, which makes a very attractive train, I think.  Note I covered the coal load with real coal.

This is my favorite angle to shoot these steamers Lee - you did a great job here!

Gunrunnerjohn: I was looking at your photographs.  Your T1 has something interesting that c.sam's and mine do not.  I checked photos of the real thing and some seem to have them and some not.  Looks for all the world like the end of exhaust headers on a land speed record car, but I figure probably not -- what are they?

@Lee- They are part of the "Buick" styling of the engines.  The concept and 1st prototype had them and wheel skirts.  But the PRR crews found them too much trouble for maintenance and removed them on most of the locomotives.  Click here to see the full streamlining of the engines.  I want one like my print that can run O36 curves.  But if it's never made, I know I'll get my hands on one and run it on a carpet O72 layout if need be.

Whoa is me...I only have one PRR T1 in O gauge...a Sunset 3rd / 3 rail, modernized.  Can't even show yunz a picture 'cuz I spent all my camera $$ on HO scale PRR T1s !

....anyway my favorite one of the bunch is the old Alco KMT from 1977. She's a 5511 modernized with factory 76" drivers...for dual service. I even added a steel doghouse to the top water deck of her 250P84.   #'d 5502.

sinclair is right Lee. The locomotives evidently went through several stages of 'de-streamlining' to facilitate servicing and the portholes were an intermediate stage from the first two full-skirted 'prototype' versions and  the remaining 50 that looked like ours (Lionel's)

I see the question has been answered.  Only the early ones had the portholes, and since I have the later Legacy one, I figured this one would be a good contrast.

If you want a real T1 see this thread!

I think that is so cool.  Emulating a Buick!  Wow.  The first car I remember.  The car that brought me home from the hospital was  1949 Buick "3-hole" coupe only a couple of weeks older than me.  

Hot Water,

Those are outstanding pics!  However...in the last pic it looks like you have a work accident.  One of the trainman is down.  Did he slip and fall?  Could be a lawsuit.

Matt

Thanks. Glad SOMEBODY spotted that. And, yes definitely an impeding on the job injury investigation. I doubt there will be an injury lawsuit, since he is one of the better employees, and is solidly a union man with an impeccable performance & safety record. We'll make sure ANY medical bills, if any, are covered, and he should be back on the job within the week. These guys that are qualified on steam locomotive brake rigging & brake shoe replacement are just too valuable!

I have the Legacy LionMaster T1 and love it.  I really like your layout...nice pics.

Here is my Lionel Legacy LionMaster T1...

Anyone know how the MTH Premier line T1's pull? Does it also have one massive DC motor that drives both sets of drivers?

I have the Lionel Scale T-1.  I installed an ERR Cruise commander in it.  Best money ever spent.  It sees regular use on my layout.

I thought ALL 3-Rail steam locomotive models have only one DC can motor, that powers both sets of drivers, in the case of duplex & articulated locomotives.

The only two-motor drives in duplex/articulated steam locomotive models that I am aware of are the Kohs brass 2-Rail only, imports.

The Legacy T1 Duplex has two motors.  So do most other Lionel articulated locomotives.

Mike's first T1

All my articulated steamers have two motors, one for each set.  I don't see how it's even possible to have one motor power two articulated set of drivers without complex linkages that would rob power and bind easily.   The MTH Premier T-1 can use one motor because like the real locomotive, it's drivers are not articulated.

My MTH T1 Cab #6110 will pull 12 of the Premier Fleet of Modernism passengers cars around my layout with a grade climbing approx 6 inches. Great runner and great looking locomotive.

The one that got away!

I've always thought that the scale articulated steamers all have a single motor but the RK articulateds, Lionmasters, and the early R.O.W. T1 used twin vertical motors similar to the GG1s to negotiate smaller curves...

As mentioned above, the T1 is a duplex non-articulated locomotive.

Well, Mr. Sinclair, I sure don't know what brands your articulated steam locomotive models are, but since you posted that, I have checked every one of my articulated models.

1) MTH    =   Ten Premier models, ALL have single motors.

2) Lionel  =   Two JLC models,  both have single motors.

3) Sunset/3rd Rail   =  Three models,  ALL have single motors.

In each case the motor is in the firebox, which is the widest portion of the boiler assembly, and drives the rear engine first, then there is a universal jointed drive shaft running forward to the front engine. All one has to do is turn the locomotive up-side-down, and the drive shaft & universal flex joints can be easily seen.

Something else to consider, with the current "single motor" articulated drive systems, the front engine and the rear engine NEVER actually go in and out of sync, since all the drivers are connected by a single drive shaft assembly. Now, the SOUND SYSTEM does indeed "simulate" the exhausts going in and out of sync!

I have only five articulated engines.  All MTH Premier including an Erie Triplex, all with ONE large Pittman motor with power transmission via drive shafts and simple u-joints.  My three MTH Premier Duplexes also use only one large Pittman motor.

Now the RailKing articulates use two small motors with each drive wheel set BUT mount just like a diesel truck allowing for tight curve operation.  But IMO they look hokey and definitely NOT prototypical.

Yes, mine are all semi/none scale locomotives from K-Line and MTH RK.  And unlike some people here, I could careless about prototypical looks.  My Big Boy looks just fine to me going around O36 curves.  And I still stand by my post above because that is what I'm basing it on, O36 curves.  A drive shaft will work for O72 curves because it doesn't have to move much, but try that with O36 and yes, you'll bind or loose power.

But as for the T-1, it seems MTH has been the only one to make #6110.  I think they've got a PS1 version which sometime I need to hunt down and buy.  Then I'll have to get some O72 track.

Certainly would have courteous to mention THAT little bit of key information in your previous post!

It would be nice to see an updated model of the original Prototype version with the extra pointy nose and full skirting. That is a strikingly beautiful locomotive IMHO.

I don't know where you get this Buick design notion?????

The first two T1's (6610 & 6611)were ordered in July, 1940.  The design is pure Raymond Loewy Art Deco touches.

The 40 and 41 Buick's had NO portholes, at least not the picture I found.

Here are a couple 1940s.

A couple 1941's.

No portholes!

Many years ago, when I ordered my Sunset/3rd Rail T-1 model, I seem to remember that the original Baldwin "demo" model with the "big long pointy nose" was one of the choices. I didn't want that version, but I wonder if Sunset/3rd Rail did produce a few of those models.

I believe these are the scale versions that have been made.

MTH and 3rd Rail have made the original (6110 and 6111) skirted versions.

Weaver, Williams and 3rd Rail have made the unskirted version with portholes.

Lionel, 3rd Rail and Right-Of -Way have made the unskirted version without portholes.

I have the MTH skirted version and the Lionel unskirted version.

Just maybe the 49 Buick copied the 40/41 (6110&6111) Loewy Pennsy T1s!

This topic comes up every so often and I love it since the T1 is my absolute favorite.  I have 3 of them:  the MTH "as built",a 3rd Rail version with reduced streamlining,and the Lionel "stripped" version.  All are EOB, TMCC and run quite well with a string of cars.  I am very partial to lines of the Lowey streamlined version.  I think that my 3rd Rail version is the smoothest runner.  The Lionel version is excellent.  I would be interested in another version if Lionel or 3rd Rail would do one----reduced streamling or stripped of it's streamlining altogether.

I love the T1.  I may have actually seen one when I was an infant and my Uncles would take me to see the trains along the Pennsy Mainline near our home.

Norm

Oh, it just gets annoying when terms like "Buick styling" get thrown around

like they mean something.

The T1's were Art-Deco in style, they were designed and built BEFORE Buick ever had a "porthole", and, indeed, were scrapped before the GM division ever had a real reputation for the vents.

T1's and Buicks have no connection; however, if one wishes to bring up autos,

R. Loewy's studio (not necessarily Loewy himself) did design the T1's shrouds,

as well as many Studebakers in the 1950's and 1960's, notably the Hawk and Avanti. 

Roughly stated, as most of you know, Loewy was to the PRR what Dreyfuss was to the

Water Level Route. The T1 looks like it came from Mars. That's a good thing.

Originally MTH cataloged (2000 if I recall) the T1s without skirts and short prow.  BUT by popular demand (customer request) they produce replicas of the first two T1s 6110 and 6111.

I found this about the Buick portholes.

A traditional Buick styling cue dating to 1949 is a series of three or four vents on the front fender behind the front wheels. The source of this design feature was a custom car of Buick stylist Ned Nickles, which in addition had a flashing light within each hole each synchronized with a specific spark plug simulating the flames from the exhaust stack of a fighter airplane. Combined with the bombsight mascot (introduced in 1946), VentiPorts put the driver at the controls of an imaginary fighter airplane. The flashing light feature was not used by Buick in production, but VentiPorts remained as nonfunctional ornamentation. Many people jokingly referred to the "ventiports" as "mouseholes".

They were called VentiPorts because the 1949 sales brochure noted that VentiPorts helped ventilate the engine compartment. The suggestion was made that they allowed air flow out of the engine bay. Air entered from the grill into the engine bay and was pressurized by the radiator fan, and exited through the VentiPorts. And possibly that was true in early 1949, but sometime during the model year they became plugged. VentiPorts have appeared sporadically on several models since and are currently featured on three of the four current Buick models.

When introduced, the number of VentiPorts (three or four) denoted the size of straight-eight engine installed. Since displacement differences in straight-eight engines resulted in more dramatic differences in engine length than on V8s, the Buick Roadmaster (which was the only model at this time with the larger engine) needed a longer chassis in front of the cowl to accommodate the larger engine. Thus an extra VentiPort also corresponded directly to the necessary extra length in front. After the more compact V8 replaced the straight-eight engine in 1953 this difference in chassis length was no longer needed. Nevertheless, the convention remained. Consequently, when the Buick Century, which shared the Buick Special's smaller body, was reintroduced in 1954, it also received four VentiPorts to denote its engine's greater displacement. However, in 1955, the Buick Super, which shared Roadmaster's larger body, was promoted from three to four VentiPorts despite having the smaller displacement engine. In turn, the Buick Invicta which took the place of the Buick Century in 1959, and consequently had the smaller body with the larger displacement engine, was demoted from four to three VentiPorts on introduction. Thus the number of VentiPorts came to denote body size rather than engine size. VentiPorts appeared on all Buicks from 1949 through 1957, and on most Buicks (notable exceptions include the Buick Wildcat, the Buick Riviera and the Buick Centurion) from 1960 through 1981.

In 2003 VentiPorts were re-introduced on the Buick Park Avenue. After the Park Avenue was discontinued, Buick salvaged the VentiPorts to appear on the new-for-2006 Lucerne. Consistent with the tradition that held from 1949 through 1954, the Lucerne's VentiPorts refer directly to engine size: V6 models have three on each side, while V8s have four on each side.

Modern and edgy compared to the oval ones that adorned Buicks for years, the new VentiPorts have become a Buick-wide talisman again and are currently featured in one form or another on the Lucerne, the popular Enclave SUV, in 2010, along the inner hood ridges of the redesigned LaCrosse, and in 2012 in the new Buick Regal, only two appear in the hood, maybe referring to the 4 cylinder engine in that car.

Interesting post above,  Thanks Gerry

Here are a few fresh shots from the club layout that I shot this morning of Lionel No 5511 pulling a set of RK Fleet of Modernism cars with figures added. Had been looking for a Premier or K-Line scale set of them and finally picked these up from a Forum member last year. They are very nice cars..