Light timing circuit sought

It can be done, but given the random power interruptions that occur as a train goes down the track, you might find that you're disappointed in the result.

 

I think that if you go the LED conversion route, with that scheme's very low current draw, you won't need to worry about power requirements.

 

On my two passenger trains, (one is a PRR heavyweight consist behind a GG1, and the other is a LIRR consist behind an RS3) I have interconnected all the passenger cars with a flexible wire to ensure that all the cars get the same non-flickering lamp power supply, regardless of intermittent track conditions.

If you go with LEDs our own gunrunnerjohn has put together an LED lighting kit that I think is now available through Henning's Trains, also a forum sponsor. Would definitely be worth a look if you decide to go that route.

You can buy timer modules that turn on for some settable time, then turn off for a different settable time.  For example, here's on from eBay, less than $10 and you can see the 2 adjustment screws for on and off times (settable from seconds to hours in this case).  Search eBay for "cycle timer module" or similar phrases.  These operate on DC voltage so there is some fussing with getting track AC converted to on-car DC voltage compatible with whatever LED configuration you are using.  This particular module will operate at 12V DC and claims to switch 1 Amp.

 

But if you have multiple cars in a consist randomly turning on and off, I think it might look a bit odd.  Arthur's idea of wiring multiple cars makes sense for sets of cars so that all do the same thing.  While connectors/tethers takes some effort, how often do you really break up the passenger sets and so on.  You then have one car with the "complicated" electronics and a bunch of slave cars with essentially just the lights. 

If you're going to the trouble of having a timer in each car, I have to agree with the LED route.  My passenger cars draw about 20ma from the track and have very even non-flickering lighting.  Lighting them all at the same time is simply not an issue.

I used GRJ's "LED's for Dummies" tutorial. Using his parts/parts list the ONLY time I have any flicker is when one of my center pickup wires come off & I am going over switches slow...

SHHHHHH!  I'm trying to sell lighting modules.   Don't tell them you can get all the parts out of your junkbox!

 

Lol folks. Im not woeried about flicker. I was tinking about lights on and off. I will look into it and keep thinking

With some component level assembly/soldering, an alternative to tethers is to "shoot" a light beam between passenger cars perhaps through the diaphragms or walk-ways.  The master car has an LED tied to its interior lighting circuit but aimed in the walkway at the next car.  The next car has a photosensor that detects this beam and turns its lights on when it sees the beam from the master.  Each successive car has the same circuit.  No tethers and only the master car needs the "complicated" electronic timers.  So the on/off command is wireless-ly daisy-chained down the consist.  Maybe $1 or so per car for the LED/photosensor pair.

 

OTOH, if having different cars randomly cycling their lights is what you want, I get it...LOTUS rails.

 

I don't know about the optical link Stan, it takes a bit more than that for Lionel to link RailSounds to the tender.   The alignment of the sensor and emitter are fairly critical for reliable operation.  I think if I were solving this issue, a simple tether looks pretty attractive and reliable to me.

Still thinking. Watching the trais, I don't think I want lighting timers. The tether idea has me intrigued. I have been replacing my bulbs with Evans AC LEDs and it is working fine. If I could run multiple cars off 1 set of pickups, with tethers and something that prevents flicker, I could 1) lose a lot of the lionel pickups (reducing drag and hopefully noise (my MTH sets run at a few smph and are silent) The noise in the room is the PE. Also, if that worked, I could keep my eyes open for quieter trucks!

Flicker reduction means on-board energy storage.  AC LEDs operate on DC.  DC energy storage much easier to implement.  One approach is AC-to-DC converter module in the master car with a reserve capacitor.  DC sent over the tethers to the slaves.  May need to isolate the LEDs from the frame/chassis if LED sockets are directly wired through chassis to wheels.

Stan's got the right idea.  If you used a simple one-pin tether, you could ship the DC voltage (referenced to frame ground) to all the cars.  The lead car would have a large capacitor to prevent flicker.  I'd probably opt for a smaller cap and put them in each car to distribute the capacitance.

 

Quieter trucks?  Maybe rubber tired wheels.

 

OK. If I want to start simple ( with what I have a pile of already), I could

1) stay AC

2) Run a string of LEDs in series (with single pin connectors between cars).

3 )In my observation car, I can tie into both wheel pickups. In my baggage car tie into both roller pickups.

This eliminates the drag from the wipers, allowing me to extend PE and run slower.

 

As to quieter trucks. John, John, John. I don't want to open the flame wars, but On my raised tressle with Realtrax, that is 1/2 on piers I/2 on a plywood platform, 6 MTH passenger cars (not Premier), 1 MTH boxcar run VERY quietly at slow speed.

 

Same track, floor level, the PE is the noisiest thing in the room. ANYTHING I can do to quiet it, I wil try. I stuffed the cars with camera case like foam, below the window line.I conductalubed the wipers.

 

I don't mind the sound, when I'm sitting on the computer and enjoying the layout,butif folks gather in the room, I have to shut the PE and just run the 3 MTH loops at slow speed. The PE drowns all 3 and interferes with conversation. I've weighted the loco, going so far as to removed the smoke element (allergies or the perception thereof,  preclude smoke use anyway). This is the last thing I can think of.

 

If this works, I'd buy plastic wheels for the powerless cars ala n scale in a heartbeat to quiet the train.

A couple of thoughts about noise. If it is on carpet already, that is probably about as quiet as you will get with RealTrax. If not already on carpet, you could try putting some under the track. Many have reported using carpet with Fastrack with good results. Should work with RealTrax as well, I would think. Solid rail track with no plastic roadbed would also help. ScaleTrax and Atlas-O have solid rails.

 

You can also get Ross roadbed for the Atlas-O track, some have said it fits well on the Atlas. I don't know about the ScaleTrax, whether the Ross roadbed fits it or not? Something like that under your RealTrax would help also, only I don't know what would fit the RealTrax either?

 

Maybe others will have better suggestions? I will leave the lighting to the experts.

rtr12

Thanks for the response. I am running 2 20 plus car freight trains and a 6 passenger car train, on the same realtrax (mostly solid rail).  They run silently at slow speed. It is the RTR Polar Express that makes the noise. It and the 2 freight trains are on carpet. The MTH passenger set is on trestles and plywood. The PE drowns out all 3 other trains.  I want to do everything I can to quiet specifically that set. it runs on O54, so it isn't a matter of needing speed for turns. I am not knocking Lionel. The LC speed control is better than their conventional. I have put the conventional shell on the LC chassis. I am not going to invest in the expensive version. I try to address this every year. I think this is my last idea.

Well, I believe it was Lee Willis that suggested filling the hollow bases of Fastrack for quieter running, should work the same with Realtrax.

 

I was joking about the rubber tires, but plastic wheelsets are readily available if they'd fit in the PE trucks.  They tend to get dirty faster, but since you aren't using them for power...

 

If it's only the one train, oil and grease? I'm sure you have probably tried that already? I recently put a little Red-N-Tacky on the gears of several engines and did notice a reduced noise level afterwards. May not be a good idea on your carpet though? That could get ugly.

 

I know GRJ was just kidding about the rubber tires, but something like that may be the only thing left to try? I don't have any Polar Express stuff, so no hands on experience here. Good luck anyway, maybe you will come up with something.

Take all the rollers off. Run a single wire tether between all the cars. Put a rechargeable battery in one car.  At the end of a session, plug in the charger.  Since LED's use so little power, the battery should last for the session.  Or charge the battery from the third rail, via a wire from the locomotive's rollers.

I will play over the next few nights and reply when I have results. Thanks folks. John, I know you were kidding, but while I've accepted the design differences, between the various manufacturers, it bugs me once in a while, so I'm not quick to smile about it. Sorry, I was a bit snippy.

Personally, I'd power the head end from track power, it's really easy and you don't have to fool around with chargers and the like.  If you're going to charge the battery from the 3rd rail, why have a battery at all?  A large capacitor will do the job as well and never go bad.

 

failing here. just from a lack of understanding. I'm using Evans Designs Universal Solid LEDs for transformers. I just learned through experimentation (wiring up 4 cars), you can't run them serially. Basically they are VERY dim. I have everything ripped apart. dagnabit... The cars roll very nicely without pickups.

 

 

If I understand what you're doing, you have "hot" power coming from the head-end baggage car and "ground" coming from the tail-end observation car?  The single-pin tethers then interconnect the cars "serially".  Well, this means the available track voltage is divided by four.  The Evans LED you refer to operate from 7-19V each.  So if connected serially, 4 of them would require 28-76V to operate.  Dim indeed...

John, I Dialoged and emailed you. It seems you have a sale

Marty, I send you an email.

 

FWIW, my suggestion for a single wire tether was based on the assumption that you have track common in every car.  So, you just run the hot wire to the cars and use the track common from the individual cars.  A serial connection didn't enter my head.

 

Thanks folks. John's lighting sets are installed. With the reduced number of center rail rollers, the PE pulls 7 passenger cars and a PE box car slowly.

The lighting difference, between stock bulbs and these kits is remarkable. The siloettes seem crisper and the observation car, which has a tail light and lighted drumhead already, is improved the rear facing windows really stand out, with the characters sitting there.

Lastly Hennings Trains (a forum sponsor) is a great store. I had a great conversation with the owner.

John's a top notch guy with a top notch product, even if I accidentally spilled the beans about him being nice enough to help me out...

All's well that ends well. 

So we can learn from your experience, what is your final wiring configuration?  And what about the noise?

Stan, I believe he ended up removing many of the center rollers to reduce drag and noise and wiring the tether to the hot line.  I suggested he leave the axle wipers as they don't contribute much to noise or drag, and that allows him to have common in each car.  With track voltage in each car, the wiring of the lighting was pretty standard.

 

I see.  It's kind of interesting how the first two responses from Arthur and rtr12 ended up being the solution after all!  A tether carrying the hot line and LED modules from some guy named gunrunnerjohn

Sometimes the best ideas are the simplest.

 

This will be a bit of a ramble. I'm typing as I watch the trains. The first answer was the right answer. I left the center rollers and wipers on the conductor car. And removed both rollers and 1 set of wipers from the rest of the cars. The hot wiring was done using pin connectors between cars. I think I need to check some of my wiring, as 2 of the cars go dark, over the crossing. The capacitors keep that from happening, on the rest.

I was able to take the consist from 5 passenger cars and a box car to 7 and a box car. I only had 6 lights, so I didn't do anything to the baggage car, but will, if I ever get to copying the cool bell car someone did a few years back, or come up with any other reason to extend the train. I only have room for 4 or 5 more on the figure 8. It can now run slower and is quieter.
On the loco, I did pull the smoke unit and stuff the boiler with tire balancing weights, as someone recommended last year. I think that also helps, with the pulling. Without the weights, the loco struggled with 6 unmodified passenger cars last year.

More of the rattling noise comes from the loco, than I thought, but with the cars running so freely, I'm happy. I may try MTH tender trucks, just to see if they help.

Next up, marker lights, and a cab light. T I am thinking about some of the firebox ideas. I will put a second conductor, on the opposite side of the car. It's on an O54 figure 8, so I just want him visible. Also, I will find the thread on the lit fire atop the hobo car.

The other thing I've learned playing, is that track voltage is irrelevant to speed control. The LC will run at 14V, but once running, I can ramp to 22, with no affect. I thought it made a difference, at first.

I finished the wiring at 2 am (I didn't start until after midnight) and only looked for a few min, this morning. Enjoying it now

You might have an issue with the axle wipers on the cars that are going dark at times.

For anyone following my learning curve, with this set. - I bought enough Atlas track today, to run my MTH bump and go hand car. The sound difference is such, that I will once again admit "Y'all told me so...." I will be replacing the RealTrax, under the figure 8 with Atlas next year. The track is on a sheet, so it is protected from carpet fibers.

Also, Also. I didn't rewire the baggage car. The train shorted out today. After checking all my work, the culprit was a wire came off a truck on the baggage car . At least the train was in a tunnel when it happened, so I could curse my decision to tether the cars!

Also Also Also. The cars going dark was a track cleaning issue.