Lighting Types in Sunset UP FEF-3

 

Can't help with your main question, but the proper name for that device is a MARS light.

Well anyway, don't forget the lights under the side walkways, and the ground light under the Engineer's side of the cab.

Thanks Hot Water.

 

As you noticed I did miss the ground lights until I took the engine apart. I found them, two on each side.

 

There is one wire going into the cab and it's a top of the cab light.  The 2 rail version didn't come from Scott with a ground light under the engineers side.  Does the three rail version hav one?

 

I have a 10 pin tether between engine and tender so far and am running out of wires and may have to add a second tether to get more prototypical lighting features. 

 

So here's where I could really use your help since you know UP 844.  I plan to wire and program the decoder as follows,

 

Independent Warm White LED Engine Headlight.  Off/On/Rule 17 dim

Independent Red LED Engine Hazzard Light.  Off/On.  Does it Strobe in the real UP844.  If yes how is this used?

Combined Marker and Number Board Warm White LEDS.  To save tether wiring.

Combined Cab and Side Walkways Warm White LEDs.  To save wiring.  I could add the ground light under Engrs side if I knew where to put it.

 

This along with motor and power and chuff wiring fills my 10 pin harness.  If I decide to put a second speaker in the engine I must add a two wire tether.  Since the QSI Titan decoder has provisions for two 8 ohm speakers and stereo mixing I'm tempted to try this. 

 

But, on the otherhand if I'm missing an important use of the lighting then I gotta think about this too.

 

Any help will be appreciated.

 

Oh, and the tender will have independent markers and backup light.

 

p.s.  The engine/tender will be close coupled.  I really prefer the drawbar Scott used on the 2 rail version to that used on the 3 rail version.  He put the flat drawbars on lots of 3 rail engines and I never could figure out why he put the hook type on the FEF-3 3 rail version.  Go figure.

  

 

 

my experience with DCC decoders (NCE, SoundTraxx, QSI, LokSound) shows most of the lighting outputs to be 1-2 volts below track voltage, EXCEPT some AUX function outlets where voltage already has been stepped down to 3 or 1.5 V.

 

this means if track voltage is 16V, expect light functions to be around 14V.

 

you can go to the QSI solutions website and download the enitre TITAN manual, where it explains voltage and current ratings of the outputs.

Thanks, Hancock52 and PRR Man.  Will get back with more.  Gotta head out this morning.

 

But, I wanted you all to know that I found Hot Water's detailed August 2012 explanation in the your (Hancock) linked topic.  This so he doesn't waste his time repeating it here.

 

Mucho thanks. Back atcha later.

PRR Man.  Yep, the headlight and backup light are at track voltage.  I'm using 3 mm Evan Designs 7-19 volts AC/DC/DCC warm white leds for them.  They also have the advantage that polarity is not a factor. 

 

All the other lights share a 5 VDC source on the QSI Titan decoder.  So far I've done the tender markers. As suggested by QSIS/Tony's I put a 100 ohm resistor in series to dim the markers down a little so as to match the tender backup light.  This can also be done with CV's.

 

 I read all of the other post that Hancock52 recommended.  Real good stuff.  Jack's comprehensive explanation really helped as did others.

 

The Red Hazzard/Mars LEDthat comes  in the 2 rail Sunset FEF-3 is 5 mm.  May or may not replace it with an Evan Designs LED 3 or 5 mm.  Unless I missed it in the other post, entirely possible -- does the Red Hazzard/Mars light on UP 844 have the capability to oscillate and/or be steady? Is it always red?

 

I understand that Mars also referres to the company and that in some cases the "Mars" light was used like a spotlight on a police cruiser.

 

Thanks again for all the help.

Please don't worry about that. I'm more than happy to answer questions concerning prototype steam locomotive operations, and even diesels,,,,,if I have to.

Thanks for the kind words, Jack.  So does the real UP 844 hazzard light oscillate/strobe? Or is it solid on/off? Or is it Engr/Fman choice?

I think that probably the better description is "oscillate" but the effect I see in videos (or can recall from seeing a locomotive Mars light in the distant past) is basically a series of apparent light pulses in a figure 8 pattern. The reality is that the single light in the unit did not flash but rotated in a mechanism described below.

 

There's a nice photo (from 2011) of the Mars hazard light fitted on UP 844 which I've copied in this post. If you look closely you can see the internal mechanism of what I think is the original Mars design in which an incandescent bulb mounted in a reflector moves both up and down and side to side in a kind of gyrascope mechanism.

 

To supplement what Jack has said about the actual use of the red hazard light you might also find useful this thread over on the real trains forum:

 

https://ogrforum.com/t...ed-use-of-mars-light

 

There are also some other threads about trying to find or make a more prototypical Mars/hazard light for O gauge engines. On the 3-rail Sunset and Lionel versions of UP 844 the light simply blinks, which is not realistic; I assumed that the Sunset 2-rail version had a better effect. I've run to ground several possibilities although these need to be adapted from HO products. Ngineering make at least three versions of the Mars or Gyralight and they are all superior to the O gauge standard lighting offered by Lionel or MTH.

 

Anyway, I am still curious as to how you got inside your 3rd Rail 844 boiler shell to do the light rewiring!

 

Hancock52.  Thanks a bunch.  Totally good info.  Yeah, I thought about doing this topic on Real Trains or on the DCC forum.  But, my "go to first" forums are the 2-Rail Scale and 3-Rail Scale forums because of the expertise of the guys who frequent them. I appreciate everyone letting me work it here and helping out.

Sorry, I missed answering your earlier question.  I place the engine upside down in a foam cradle.  The engine frame is held to the upper stuff, boiler/cab by two screws at the back of the cab on either side of the tether hole.  Also, one long screw up front that I accessed by taking the front/pilot truck off.

The steam chest front/door is held to the boiler by a small screw on the boiler underside.  It's about 1/4 from the boiler front and is easily remove after the frame is removed.  This provides access to the front lights and smoke unit if equipped.

I also removed the boiler weight so I can work inside the boiler removing and replacing wiring and lighting and circuit boards.   Two screws on the bottom of the boiler.

The tender frame  is held to the body by six screws.  One in each corner and one at the front of each 5 wheel sideframe.

The Sunset 2 rail UP 844 came with a large 5mm red blinking LED hazard light.  It had a small board with components attached which I thought make it blink.  So, I removed it and tested the LED only The LED itself blinks.  How does it do that without an external component?  Got me.

Anyway, hope this helps.  Regards,

That Ngineering website has a lot of good stuff!

Thanks Bill, that is a great help and I will make use of your info. I run 3-rail Sunset engines and the problem is getting access inside the boiler shells of the steamers when necessary to (a) service the smoke unit and (b) access the headlight circuits.

 

The LED you are describing is an integrated circuit one where the flash circuit is actually inside the bulb. Evan Designs (modeltrainsoftware.com) sells these. I think that the board that you describe probably controls when power is fed to the bulb to switch it on. Does the hazard light only illuminate when the engine runs in reverse? That's the only function it has on my 3-rail 844. I am not sure whether any standard DCC board has the option to use a Mars light in this way.   I do have a DCC equipped Athearn FEF-3 where the red Mars light is triggered only when the engine is stopped and can be switched off and on as function 3.

 

Just for the sake of completeness, I'll mention that my Legacy 844's hazard light illuminates when the engine is stopped or when it is in reverse - so it combines the Sunset and Athearn features. I think that the bulb is wired direct to the Legacy board so presumably it is programed to feed power to the LED in those two operating states. I think that the LED must be a simple flasher like yours.

Yeah, they are good products and their lighting features work exactly as advertised. I am experimenting with their DC power source and Super Mars Light board for use in my Sunset steam engines and diesels in place of the boring blinking LEDs.

Your welcome, Hancock52.  It'll be easy to gain front access to the boiler to service the lights and smoke unit the way I did it.

As for hazard light functionality, the QSI Titan decoders have numerous options for hazard light behavior in forward, neutral from forward, reverse and neutral from reverse. 

I've used Evan Designs LEDs for a long time now while doing somewhere between 10 and 20 TMCC Upgrades using TAS EOB's and then on to ERR prducts before switching to 2 rail.   Have the slow flashing red 3mm and 5mm LEDs and lots of other warm white and colored choices.

I just figured that the flashing came from the circuitry in the heat shrinked  components.  The one Sunset uses is red plastic whereas the Evan ones are clear.

i really wanted to wrap the hardware part this project up and get on with the CV's.  And I already have a ton of ED's LEDs.  But you've got me thinking about that Ngineering Super Mars Light .  It never ends.  Hmmm.

Some while back Scott Mann told me that Sunset had problems getting a reliable Mars light circuit set up - for some reason the boards or lights kept failing - so they opted for the simple expedient of a flashing LED which has a filtered power supply linked to the motor; at least that's how I understood it although my query related to their 3-rail models. 

 

If the shrink-wrapped board you've seen simply feeds power to the LED it occurs to me that it might be possible just to splice in one of Nginering's Mars light simulator boards and a 3 mm LED in place of the blinking LED. Anyway, this is what I intend to try on my Sunset SP Daylight, where the existing blinking LED Mars light frankly lets down the other detail of the engine.

 

Ngineering'sproducts are not cheap and they are very small and so pretty difficult (for me) to work with but they produce great effects.