I am building a new Layout at a NEW Location. I used Florescent Lights over my last one with no problems. The Lighting Co. that is putting in my new Basement Lights is suggesting LED Can Lights & LED Flush Mount Lights. These will be installed in a "DROP CEILING"! Any opinions, concerns or Suggestions????
Fred (FREDSTRAINS)
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Fredstrains posted:I am building a new Layout at a NEW Location. I used Florescent Lights over my last one with no problems. The Lighting Co. that is putting in my new Basement Lights is suggesting LED Can Lights & LED Flush Mount Lights. These will be installed in a "DROP CEILING"! Any opinions, concerns or Suggestions????
Fred (FREDSTRAINS)
I use LED can lights in my new train room, because when I used Florescent lights on my old layout, and the ballast died they were in bad areas of the layout, and in order to remove them I damaged several pieces when part of the light fell so now I can use a dimmer to adjust from day to night they use less energy and best of all they have a life span of over 10+years so if they go out it will be someone else problem good luck
The screw in base lights like the LED usually get installed in incandescent light fixtures. Florescent are usually tubular and need to have special boxes on the ceiling or wall. Personally I like the incandescent size light bulbs because they use less watts(even with more light bulbs) then the incandescent light bulbs.
Most incandescent size bulbs(LED or other) now start around 9 to 14 watts depending on the size or type of bulb. Most fluorescent lights start near 40 watts each, and you need to include the florescent fixture feature(a transformer or power booster) that can use from 12 watts to 20.
Lee
I would use nothing other than LED lights. Even light. Relatively inexpensive light (the wattage/use is about 1/7th of incandescent bulbs). Various "colors". NO UV - a real bonus. Why would you use anything else for a new installation???
The electrician is correct. Go with what he (she) says.
Go with LEDs. Get the dimmable 5000K variety. Gives a daylight color balance, which is excellent for photography. You won't regret it.
Chris
LVHR
Go LEDS. I have been changing over my fluorecents to them. Like what has been said. More light on less watts with no UV.....Paul
Incandescents and flourescent bulbs have been around for ever...
But LED's are better. Whatever you do, stay away from CFL bulbs. There are also the slim under cabinet ones... and you can get the flood light styled ones for your pot lights.
Edit: Also, my whole house is LED bulbs. Look out for the ETL certification - bad news. You want something that's UL listed.
LED's. go with what your electrician recommends. Watch the color temperature ratings- 5,000K is very blue. Lower numbers, 3500K or lower will be a warmer/ pinker light. Average commercial office building is 4100K for reference.
I spent a good long time on the same question about 6 months ago for my new train room... I am very happy with the following choice from GE! I have them installed in 3 light spot fixtures. They are designed around a hobby room with the intention of making colors stand out and they do a great job. I can say that all of my colorful passenger trains look incredible and the lights even look great on the "stainless steel" passenger cars such as the Atlas CZ.
I would also suggest LEDs.
I find 3000 K bulbs to be best for viewing as well as for photography. The 2700 K are a little too warm, and the 5000 K much too blue for my taste (and camera).
Jim
lehighline posted:Go with LEDs. Get the dimmable 5000K variety. Gives a daylight color balance, which is excellent for photography. You won't regret it.
Chris
LVHR
I'll second this exact recommendation above. 5000k is my preferred color temp as well. Everyone is different when it comes to color temp though, so you may want to try out some different color temps to see what is best for you.
We have converted our whole house to LEDs, except the basement. I have a bunch of 4' fluorescent fixtures over my layout and workshop which are now 5000k Daylight bulbs. As they go bad (either ballast or bulbs) they are being switched to LEDs as well.
I put 3 "cans" above my layout (13 1/2 x 7) and originally put 90W equivalent warm white CFL floods ups there. About 5 years ago, I put 120W equiv. LED floods in the cans. I ordered 5000K bulbs, which, while bright, made my basement look like a hospital. I didn't like the look at all. I exchanged them for warm white (2700K) and used those until earlier this year. Kobi came out with 150W equiv. floods at 3000K and I put those in. Love them. Incredibly bright. I had to put a dimmer switch in, but even with that, I couldn't let my eyes drift upward. So.......I went to Home Depot and bought 3 more of the baffles I had used for the cans (they normally seal up the cans just below a suspended ceiling. The 3 new baffles, I turned upside down, so the part that is normally inside the can is now below the bulb. With my Dremel, I cut off enough of the baffle so that it hangs down to the level of the bulb (they stick out of the can a bit). Now I don't need the dimmer as the side of the bulb is hidden by the baffle and when I look up, I'm not blinded and most of the light is projected downward to my layout. Perfect. They are not cheap, but you'd be hard pressed to find brighter bulbs.
https://www.conservationmart.c...000k-r40-175-30.aspx
I could not get correct color balance from my camera to take a photo of the layout with the bulbs on. The photo below shows the baffle mounted upside down below the original one to shield your eyes from the intensity of the light from the side of the bulb.
Roger
The head of maintenance at the plant where I work told me that they ordered LED lamps that look like florescence tubes.
I have not seen these on the local market as yet but I have been told that they are brighter then the gas tubes and cost a lot less to operate.
That said, I have been changing over most of my lights to LED at home. I like the light and they stay cool to the touch.
The only problem I can report was with the 3 Way LED's. I tried four of them in four different lamps and they all failed within a month. I brought them back and was told they had a lot of returns. I have not seen them in the stores lately, I guess the power supplies in the base could not handle the draw.
Other then staying away from "three way" bulbs LED lighting is great though a little pricey.
I am switching everything over to 4 foot long LED powered shop lights. I like them a LOT!!!
Glare is an issue with some leds, I put 6 new 2×4 fixtures in a drop ceiling and they were way too brite. I had too run 2 separate low voltage wires to each fixture, then to a 0-10v dimmer, no glare and the amp draw halved again because they dim electronically, not with a resistor in the wall. I also have 6 can lights with sylvania leds, they are ok slight glare, the diffuser in the big fixture really helps. In the end I would do the 2x4 with dimmer in drops, expensive but...you get what you pay for, like anything.
When I built my train room I went with track lighting. Later on I discovered LEDs to replacethe halogen bulbs and they're great. They put out virtually no heat, they're dimmable and should last a long time.
Most of the ones we have are supposed to have a 22 year lifespan. If that's truly the case, I probably will never be changing any of them.
Whatever you do...have the capability of increasing/decreasing intensity and I have can lights...the track lights may be the better choice because you may "adjust" or "re-adjust" the "point" if it becomes necessary. If you have cans, you are pretty much stuck less extra work.
I picked up some 4', 3K LED fixtures for $25 a piece at Home Depot last month. They really fill the basement with light, more so than the old fluorescent. Not dimmable, but that doesn't matter to me.
Whoa Nelly!! If you seek artistic value leds are not necessarily the way to go. The purpose is not lighting but aesthetics. You must go to a store specializing bulbs. They will have a display board with a dozen lights, including leds of different spectral qualities. You can put an object or picture under each bulb and sense the extraordinary difference the wavelengths make. Buy a bulb or two or three or four, take them to your layout and turn the lights off and the bulbs on and see how different the scenes look. You won't waste the bulbs because they can be used anywhere in the house. You need the ability to dim bulbs and select the number you want illuminated. Operating cost is irrelevant. Lighting aesthetically is more important than weathering or selecting scenary. A professional bulb store will have dozens of varieties to select from. Then you need to have the electrician install fixtures to accept gells. Gells are purchased at theatrical supply and camera stores. You can change the look of scenary tremendously by changing the gell in front of the bulb....Shhhh. Big secret. Many profesional photographers use gells in front of light bulbs when illuminating model layouts for magazine shots. Do not go "with what your electrician recommends". Unless he is an artist. Electricans have no training in aesthetics. They specialize in load factors and complying with city codes. Do a google search for theatrical lighting and theatrical gells. There are a lot of ideas for lighting on these websites. For example diffusive frosted gells and reflective boards for indirect lighting. You will find they have inexpensive software to program lighting changes in color and intensity to change a layout from night to day, for example! With lightening flashes to simulate a storm! Give as much thought to lighting as to making a track plan if a realistic diorama is your goal. And yes. There is information on the net regarding "lighting dioramas". Do a bing.com search. For some reason the bing search engine comes with more model diorama lighting stuff than google.. You will find more information then I could post!
In keeping with my previous comments and what Tommy said about the artistic side, what looks good to you is what counts.
If you prefer the warmer tones of the incandescent bulbs that a 1950s layout certainly would have had, 2700K is the way to go. Others prefer the whiter/bluer tones of 3000K and above that tend to reveal more detail in scenes. These will give your scenes a much different feel. It's all a matter of personal taste.
That's why lighting designers will usually suggest higher color temperature bulbs for kitchen work areas or other places where you need to see what you're doing, but, will use the warm tones for a more relaxed mood in bedrooms, etc.
Definitely experiment before you commit to a large lighting purchase.
Also, make sure that your workbench and paint booth are illuminated by the same bulbs as your layout. As Tommy also said, your models (and paint/weathering) will look different under the different type bulbs.
You definitely want to build, choose paints, and weather under the same lighting conditions as your models will be viewed on your layout.
Jim
Fredstrains posted:I am building a new Layout at a NEW Location. I used Florescent Lights over my last one with no problems. The Lighting Co. that is putting in my new Basement Lights is suggesting LED Can Lights & LED Flush Mount Lights. These will be installed in a "DROP CEILING"! Any opinions, concerns or Suggestions????
Fred (FREDSTRAINS)
Fred, one thing is make sure you have lights behind the viewer. We've been to some layouts where they have a ceiling valance panel inline with the layout which caused all the lighting to be above or behind the trains so the side you view is ALWAYS in shadow. Bad for viewing and photographing as all the details get lost. As many have stated color temp is your preference, we went with daylight, and as Jim noted layout and paint room must have the same bulbs.
Jim Policastro posted:
"That's why lighting designers will usually suggest higher color temperature bulbs for kitchen work areas or other places where you need to see what you're doing, but, will use the warm tones for a more relaxed mood in bedrooms, etc.
Jim
Jim, that's why all our layout houses have incandescent bulbs, so the 1/48 residents can be "in the mood" whenever they desire, like those TV commercials 
Tommy posted:Whoa Nelly!! If you seek artistic value leds are not necessarily the way to go. The purpose is not lighting but aesthetics. You must go to a store specializing bulbs. They will have a display board with a dozen lights, including leds of different spectral qualities. You can put an object or picture under each bulb and sense the extraordinary difference the wavelengths make. Buy a bulb or two or three or four, take them to your layout and turn the lights off and the bulbs on and see how different the scenes look. You won't waste the bulbs because they can be used anywhere in the house. You need the ability to dim bulbs and select the number you want illuminated. Operating cost is irrelevant. Lighting aesthetically is more important than weathering or selecting scenary. A professional bulb store will have dozens of varieties to select from. Then you need to have the electrician install fixtures to accept gells. Gells are purchased at theatrical supply and camera stores. You can change the look of scenary tremendously by changing the gell in front of the bulb....Shhhh. Big secret. Many profesional photographers use gells in front of light bulbs when illuminating model layouts for magazine shots. Do not go "with what your electrician recommends". Unless he is an artist. Electricans have no training in aesthetics. They specialize in load factors and complying with city codes. Do a google search for theatrical lighting and theatrical gells. There are a lot of ideas for lighting on these websites. For example diffusive frosted gells and reflective boards for indirect lighting. You will find they have inexpensive software to program lighting changes in color and intensity to change a layout from night to day, for example! With lightening flashes to simulate a storm! Give as much thought to lighting as to making a track plan if a realistic diorama is your goal. And yes. There is information on the net regarding "lighting dioramas". Do a bing.com search. For some reason the bing search engine comes with more model diorama lighting stuff than google.. You will find more information then I could post!
I take offense to:
Do not go "with what your electrician recommends". Unless he is an artist. Electricans have no training in aesthetics. They specialize in load factors and complying with city codes.
As a electrician with 25+ years experience and several years of Theatrical Lighting design before that, we all know quite a lot about proper lighting for a particular space. That being said I do agree that the best thing to do is go to a good lighting store, not HD, Lowes, Menards, and look at what is available. The people in these stores know the products very well and can help you out.
Bob
Of course an individual in theatrical lighting is an excellent person to go to to seek advice! But this a "niche". Just as there are specialists in medicine. You wouldn't visit an orthopedist for a brain injury. No disrespect intended!
Tommy posted:Of course an individual in theaatrical lighting is an excellent person to go to to seek advice! But this a "niche". Just as there are specialists in medicine. You wouldn't visit an orthopedist for a brain injury. No disrespect intended!
Lighting: I have gone from florescents to Reveals to dim-able LEDs; now I am going tube LEDs.
I'm OLD I like controllable BRIGHT!
I find "dusk lighting" to be the most aesthetically effective. I also like lighting behind the operator. For working on the layout bright overheads. The computer programs to control lighting are simple and not too expensive.. in years gone by it was impossible to vary lighting automatically, changing day into night. Some other OGR posters have done so. I have taken my layout down. It would be nice to hear from them. An expert in theatrical lighting (generally an electrician) would be a good help. I would experiment using portable lights with a variety of bulbs. You can always use the bulbs elsewhere. Do a bing.com search on "computer controlled lighting software." There are many other user-friendly options beside a Home Depot dimmer switch. In my opinion the lighting is equally important as scenary, weathering, and structures. No rush to decide. And of course install LED's under the layout when you need to do wiring.
I might add that stores specializing in lighting sell tubular gells of different colors to slip over tubular flourescents! Worthwhile from a safety standpoint if the bulb shatters. If you use tubular flourescents safety wire them.
Also, comments have been made regarding "color temperature" expressed in kelvins. A simple but also complicated to the lay person methodology used by lighting designers and photographers to compare and contrast lighting options. Worth an internet search.
The color of light is expressed in degrees Kelvin. It is the universal descriptor to define the "color" of light. Lower temperatures are at the yellow end of the spectrum, while higher temperatures move to the blue end of the spectrum.
Here are a few examples of light color and degrees Kelvin.
Your layout will look MUCH better if you stay with warmer lights at 3200 degrees K or below. The use of higher temperature, bluer light will give your layout a very cold and uninviting look.
I guess it comes down to personal preference. Having taken a lot of pictures and having them come out too yellow, I'm partial to a more natural daylight look. I do not think 5000K is too blue, in fact, I like it. I like white to be "white", not yellow. The shot below is with 5000K LEDs.
Just my 2 cents.
Chris
LVHR
Chris, if your pictures came put too yellow, it means you did not white balance the camera for the lighting you were using! If you leave your camera in the "daylight" mode, images shot under incandescent light will look too yellow. I guarantee that the picture you posted would look exactly the same under incandescent light, if the camera was white balanced for incandescent light.
However, the OP here is concerned about how the layout will look for visitors, not photos. The human eye is the best imaging device in the world. Your eye can view scenes lit by different colors of light and make unconsciously make adjustments for the different colors so everything looks OK to your eye. Cameras (film and digital) cannot do that! They have to be told what color of light is illuminating the scene so the resulting pictures are not too blue or too yellow.
Studies have proven that "warm" light (color in the 2800K to 3200K range) is easier on the eye and creates a more pleasing impression in your mind. The phrase, "Warm and cozy..." actually has a scientific basis in fact. The "colder" light above 4000K tends to be harder on the eye and does not create the same comfortable impression.
Thanks for the good comments Melvin. Good points & much appreciated ! I have defimetly decided on Dimable LED Can & Flush Mount Lighting over my new Layout!!
Thanks everyone for the suggestions and good info.!
Fred (Fredstrains)
Fluorescent T-8's give off a great light. Natural Sun Light.. Inside food growers use this light. get them anywhere..
I was looking at buying Hyperikon 12V MR16 LED 7-watt, 4000K, CRI90+, dimmable bulbs to replace all the Halogen bulbs in my light fixtures, primarily because of the high CRI rating (and much less heat). I have not been able to find high CRI ratings in lower K 12V MR16 bulbs. Maybe I'll just buy a few and see if I like them.
I have always wondered if the K value and/or CRI value changes as you dim LED bulbs. Does anyone know? Thanks.
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