Lion Chief/ LC+ And TMCC/Legacy

I do not think anyone but Lionel can speak to what they "intend".  Plus what is intended at one moment can change in another.  Especially where customer expectation come into play.  Regardless, I think your analogy is still wrong.  Regardless of how fast technology can refresh in any industry does not mean it refreshes that fast in others.

Model train industry has always attempted to be backward compatible as trains have not been treated as throw away toys.  Despite its Age, Legacy and ProtoSounds did get technology refreshes.  Lionel totally redesigned and implemented new Legacy boards retaining the standard of communication.  The system still evolves with new software, and the whole premium line evolves around it.

The fact that LC+ communication is newer, better, is inconsequential at this point. 

Despite what you want in a TV entertainment set doesn't mean everyone wants it your way.  So DVD are still a main stream item, and if your a want it now, usually DVD are the next release after the movie comes out, not wifi streaming.

Lastly, despite the crowd that wants it simple, there are a lot of tech stuffed in that LC+ engine in a single integrated board. 

This really is not the Large Layout operators with Large scale Legacy engines wanting small O-27 engine to run off legacy.  It is a segment of the market that has TMCC or maybe Legacy, but on a smaller scale and smaller budget that would like to be able to run LC+ off their TMCC/Legacy Remote.

So Lionel need to assess the market, and adjust their intent if they thing there is a market and a profitable one.   G

"Despite what you want in a TV entertainment set doesn't mean everyone wants it your way.  So DVD are still a main stream item, and if your a want it now, usually DVD are the next release after the movie comes out, not wifi streaming."

Not to belabor the point too far but that's changing even as we speak, at least for digital downloads.  

http://www.engadget.com/2016/0...ol-digital-hd-sales/

Fox's Digital HD plan to sell movies online ahead of their disc release appears to be paying off, as it just announced that CGI-heavy Deadpool is the fastest selling superhero digital HD movie. Of course, it being incredibly well-received doesn't hurt, but racking up a million sales before the Ultra HD Blu-ray / Blu-ray / DVD debut next week is pretty nice.

GGG posted:

Despite what you want in a TV entertainment set doesn't mean everyone wants it your way.  So DVD are still a main stream item, and if your a want it now, usually DVD are the next release after the movie comes out, not wifi streaming.

 

Dead Pool has been on iTunes for over 2 weeks before the DVD hit.  It was also available "On-Demand" of my cable system for at least a week.  Same with Star Wars The Force Awakens.  DVD's may still be popular but they are going the way of VHS pretty quickly.  Most networks are going to streaming for a lot of their content as well. 

Ok, we got one movie, maybe two or a few  But the subject is not the future of DVDs rather Integration of LC+. Nice diversion though.  G

GGG posted:

Ok, we got one movie, maybe two or a few  But the subject is not the future of DVDs rather Integration of LC+. Nice diversion though.  G

It was intermission.

GGG posted:

I do not think anyone but Lionel can speak to what they "intend".  Plus what is intended at one moment can change in another.  Especially where customer expectation come into play.  Regardless, I think your analogy is still wrong.  Regardless of how fast technology can refresh in any industry does not mean it refreshes that fast in others.

Model train industry has always attempted to be backward compatible as trains have not been treated as throw away toys.  Despite its Age, Legacy and ProtoSounds did get technology refreshes.  Lionel totally redesigned and implemented new Legacy boards retaining the standard of communication.  The system still evolves with new software, and the whole premium line evolves around it.

The fact that LC+ communication is newer, better, is inconsequential at this point. 

 

I would bet pretty good money that within the next few years Lionel releases "Legacy II" or some such, same feature set as Legacy but with 2.4 GHz communication, which would eliminate all the nonsense associated with the 455kHz track signal. It will of course be interoperable and backward compatible with Legacy as we know it and will also offer compatibility with LC+.

That's my story and I am sticking with it!

PLCProf posted:

I would bet pretty good money that within the next few years Lionel releases "Legacy II" or some such, same feature set as Legacy but with 2.4 GHz communication, which would eliminate all the nonsense associated with the 455kHz track signal. It will of course be interoperable and backward compatible with Legacy as we know it and will also offer compatibility with LC+.

That's my story and I am sticking with it!

I think this is likely to be the case as well, adding that it would be likely that a serial cable to connect to tmcc/legacy bases would probably be included for backwards compatibility, and/or an inexpensive bridge device would be offered that would broadcast the tmcc track signal.  I would actually expect a larger feature set than what Legacy offers, including (practically) limitless numbers of engines, routes, switches, etc, and built in wifi/LCS.  Anything less would be a disappointment.  

On the side track, and for whatever it is worth, my cable provider has been offering streaming "on demand" movies 1-2 weeks before DVD release for the last several years for rental.  Most people I know, in my own and younger age demographics use streaming services for most of their TV watching, and some have nothing more than the TV on the wall connected to the internet over Wifi with no connection to cable or broadcast whatsoever.  

Just because a technology is old does not mean anything is wrong with it, in most cases it will still do exactly what it was designed to do, but something else still working is not a good reason to keep producing it when a superior product can be made for a lower cost using new technologies.  

It is worth noting that for a tech, that understands how the boards in a TMCC engine work, the boards in a LC+ engine perform the exaxt same functions.  Motherboard/Power-supply, Radio, Motor driver, Sounds.  (LC does split the division of labor between different boards than TMCC, but anyone with a basic understanding of electronics can see the same functions being done, over all.)  This is not a complex, 'high tech' device.  Yes, LC boards use more modern components such as all in one decoder-amplifiers and high efficiency HEXFETS, but the functions of the boards remain the same, and the functions of the components on those boards are easy to understand... In many cases easier to follow than their predecessors.  LC/+'s primary tech advantage is the radio system, and as I have discussed many times before, digital two way communication, even with the most basic checksum error detection, is far superior to analog Am radio, never mind digital systems that use advanced error correction algorithms such as WiFi or BlueTooth.  

JGL

There is still marketing and Psychology 101 principles that apply.  This hobby is not a disposable one where you throw away the object after you assume a depreciation.  While the tech stuff is nice, I am not sure that anyone purchases the train (other than a few techies) because it has a neat, new operating frequency and protocol.   It seems to me it still is about running a rail road, and while the tech could go there, why does it need too? The features and capability that hobbyist look for is engine and railroad related, cost and reliability.  Most likely, if all those needs are met they would question, why they need to buy a new product, because it has a better capability that they can't equate too.  I do not care what is inside my TV, phone computer, as long as it functions to my needs.  I am not buying new, because it has features I don't use or care about.   Can you afford to disenfranchise customers invested heavily in your prior system.  We have really been all over the map on this, when the initial subject was backward compatibility.  Do we want to talk about frequency, size of controller, low tech versus high tech, DVDs versus streaming?  I guess we can start the counter and see where we are at on 11May 2019.  G

the guessing at a legacy II that would use communication like the LC/LC+ line is why I would think they would make an LCS box that controls LC/LC+ engines from the legacy remote.  If they later make high end engines that use that communication, then the box already exists.  Additionally, I keep wondering if they will ditch making remotes for making applications (i prefer both myself).  If they make an LCS box to control LC/LC+ engines, and you have LCS wifi connected to a legacy base then you have everything you need to be "future" proofed and backwards compatible.   

I have both TMCC CAB1-L and LC+. I like both of them. The LC+ is nice because you can run it on any layout. Just put power to the track and go. Plus kids can operate it with simple instructions. I like Legacy/TMCC because it's just cool however, you do have to bring the CAB1-L or CAB2-L systems to run it if there is no system. Then you have to connect it to to the transformer and for some that is more than they want to do. It would be nice if Lionel made them to work together, but it's not the big of a deal.