Just got a Brand new Santa Fe Scout Lionchief today. I am now a HUGE fan of the new system. When they said simple, they ment it. Doubted Lionchief at first and then bought one and am blown away. What do you all think?
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I'm now on my THIRD LC+ Mikado. Knock on wood and fingers crossed this one seems like a winner. First one was totally DOA, second had some minor issues with sound and motor. I like the looks, runs well, sounds good for what it is and is a reliable little control system.
I like the simplicity and reliability. It will come in handy especially on the modular layout where sometimes the command control reliability is spotty. Also, I can use the Center track and not have to fight for space on the other loops...
Things I don't like - the switches on the Mikado - whoever thought the switch locations were a good idea, well, think again. Nearly impossible to get to with a finger - you need a tool to reach in the cab where they are. I won't say I don't like it but the slow and steady acceleration takes some serious getting used to, for me at least. I'm starting to get the hang of it...a few derailments and crashes when I was switching with it in the yard before I started getting the hang of the throttle/acceleration. I would also prefer more of a solid "notch" in the throttle at neutral. Sure there are notches but I'd like a solid "click" to know I'm there.
Overall, LC+ is a winner.
I have four LC+ now and love them. I wish the steamers were scale but I love 'em anyway and run them all the time. The system is simple, gives good control, and so far has far fewer problems (i.e., none) than my friends with Legacy and DCS have with addresses, ground planes, etc.
I have noticed that before the batteries die enough that the remotes don't work at all, the 'sorta work' for a while and things get squirrelly. Anytime a loco starts to act up in any way, I just changed the batteries . . .
I also have four LC+ locos, and really enjoy them. Three steamers (one of each) and the GP-7. I have not yet found 4 remotes to be a hassle. I typically start three trains, and then walk around with the one that I am driving as engineer. Occasionally, I will hold two remotes - no problems.
When I think about it, I can't see how I would try to run three or more locos under operator control. I like to have other trains just running their loops while I engineer one or two trains. For me, the big concern that some have expressed about having too many remotes is a bust. But we will see if I still feel that way when I have 10 remotes instead of four 
. I can't run more than four at a time right now anyway.
The detail and heft of the steamers is great at this price point, excellent speed control and great smoke.
Yep I love all my LionChief and LionChief Plus trains and so far haven't had any issues. I noticed there's a Broadway Limited LionChief rtr set. Wasn't the Broadway Limited the first MPC Mighty Sound of Steam rtr set? And might this be a signal Lionel is testing the waters of rereleasing the other MPC era MSOS sets in the LionChief line?
To my way of thinking, the Lion Chief Plus locos are the new standard of value for money in the mid-range of separate sale locos. The Lion Chief sets are already the only starter sets that provide this sort of play value at a relatively affordable price point. The folks at Lionel have done some serious technical and marketing thinking to come up with this new approach. I would not be surprised to see them trial run this technology in some higher end products eventually. It's bulletproof and elegantly simple compared with every command system out there, including TMCC, DCS, Legacy and DCC, in many ways.
Originally Posted by Landsteiner:
To my way of thinking, the Lion Chief Plus locos are the new standard of value for money in the mid-range of separate sale locos. The Lion Chief sets are already the only starter sets that provide this sort of play value at a relatively affordable price point. The folks at Lionel have done some serious technical and marketing thinking to come up with this new approach. I would not be surprised to see them trial run this technology in some higher end products eventually. It's bulletproof and elegantly simple compared with every command system out there, including TMCC, DCS, Legacy and DCC, in many ways.
New standard for value? What features does the Lionchief have over and above the Railking sets that have been offered by MTH in the $250-400 price range for probably ten or more years that come standard with all Proto features found in the Premier stuff (minus quillable whistle), often with a limited remote (that I believe runs up to two trains) in the box? Maybe I missed something? Would be good to know as Christmas is fast approaching.
I agree that the LionChief sets are real 'winners'. I purchased the Thomas CHRISTMAS set
from those C. Ro folks last xmas.
I am not familiar withe LC+.
Originally Posted by PJB: "What features does the Lionchief have over and above the Railking sets that have been offered by MTH in the $250-400 price range..."
I think the least expensive MTH sets are in the $300 plus range. The least expensive LionChief sets are $100 less, so that's one value issue. The Lionel sets are available from some retailers at 25-35% off MSRP, unlike the MTH sets, so the price differential can be even larger. That's real money for beginners in the hobby or those on a strict budget.
True the MTH sets can be operated in command mode, but you have to come up with another $300 or so to buy DCS. The LionChief sets do not have that capability, but you can operate two LionChief locomotives, or more, independently and simultaneously on a layout or set of loops, which you cannot do with the MTH locos without DCS. The LionChief control system is radiofrequency from the handheld to the loco, whereas the MTH starter sets come with an infrared system of control, which is less reliable and easy to use.
Finally, in comparing separate sale LionChief Plus locos with separate sale RailKing PS3 locos, the RailKing locos are superior in terms of command control features, and perhaps scale detail in some instances. However to access those command control features you need to have DCS. LionChief Plus locos come with their own controller, so command control features are available without any additional purchases. Pricing these models at on-line and large retailers, the LionChief steamers are available for slightly north of $300 and the diesels for slightly north of $200. These are significantly lower prices than those for most PS3 RailKing locos.
Those are the main features of value for money that I was referring to.
Oh, and forgot to mention - the Railking set I bought for my children had passenger cars with fully appointed interiors - tables, seats, spiral staircase, etc. (but no people) rather than the Polar Express set's frosted windows/no interiors. What makes the Lionchief such a bargain in comparison?
Polar Express is the more expensive of the LionChief sets because there are significant licensing fees. A Thomas the Tank set can be had for $150, which is half the price of your typical RailKing set at retail. One would expect better details and such in the RailKing set at twice the price, no? I was not speaking of "superior" but "best value for money."
What makes them stand out?
A lot more sets(and value priced engines) to chose from that's what.
Any sighting of the LionChief RS 3 that went back to Lionel last Aug?
I would strongly disagree with this comment. I've got the full blown DCS system on one loop and the DCS Remote Commander (from the RTR sets) on my inner loop as the full system REFUSES to work (check track, Out of range, etc) on the inner loop for one reason or another. Anyway, as long as you are pointing the remote at the receiver, I've found it to be a VERY reliable and easy to use system that does pretty much everything most people (myself included) use the "big" DCS system for. Very rarely does the engine start up and won't do anything else with the DCSRC. A re-boot solves that. Overall, I have a bit more fun using the "basic" system vs. the big boy system.
Originally Posted by Landsteiner:
True the MTH sets can be operated in command mode, but you have to come up with another $300 or so to buy DCS. The LionChief sets do not have that capability, but you can operate two LionChief locomotives, or more, independently and simultaneously on a layout or set of loops, which you cannot do with the MTH locos without DCS. The LionChief control system is radiofrequency from the handheld to the loco, whereas the MTH starter sets come with an infrared system of control, which is less reliable and easy to
This system is a tape measure home run for Lionel. Pure genius. It is designed for virtually no learning curve and will be popular in my opinion for many years to come.
SJC;
Please email me, I would like to help you resolve the issues with your DCS system.
Russell
Originally Posted by SJC:
I would strongly disagree with this comment. I've got the full blown DCS system on one loop and the DCS Remote Commander (from the RTR sets) on my inner loop as the full system REFUSES to work (check track, Out of range, etc) on the inner loop for one reason or another. Anyway, as long as you are pointing the remote at the receiver, I've found it to be a VERY reliable and easy to use system that does pretty much everything most people (myself included) use the "big" DCS system for. Very rarely does the engine start up and won't do anything else with the DCSRC. A re-boot solves that. Overall, I have a bit more fun using the "basic" system vs. the big boy system.
Originally Posted by Landsteiner:
True the MTH sets can be operated in command mode, but you have to come up with another $300 or so to buy DCS. The LionChief sets do not have that capability, but you can operate two LionChief locomotives, or more, independently and simultaneously on a layout or set of loops, which you cannot do with the MTH locos without DCS. The LionChief control system is radiofrequency from the handheld to the loco, whereas the MTH starter sets come with an infrared system of control, which is less reliable and easy to
No you don't. There are many Railking ready-to-run sets that come with a DCS-lite remote system. And even when the remote isn't included, the locomotive still comes with the entire PS3.0 package installed. I can tell you that a couple years ago I was amazed that the ready to run sets from Lionel came with a conventional loco, fogged glass freakishly light passenger cars and were still more expensive than the MTH ready to run sets that come with full PS3.0 and hefty fully detailed passenger cars. Anyway...
... I just took another look at the Lionel catalogue. I see what you mean. There are some true "purely starter" LC sets for like 100. And some decent sets for like $150. Fair enough, I wasn't really paying attention to these. I was looking at it the other way around - doing an apples-to-apples on a relatively "realistic" r-t-r set that I would actually buy. On this basis, I was looking at the Pennsy Broadway Limited LC set, which is $370. With frosted windows. Then saw the comparable Railking set, which is in the same price range (and had been for like ten years before the LC sets came to market) but with full PS3.0 and passenger cars with detailed interiors. On that basis, I didn't see this as anything more than Lionel's attempt to meet the competition.
Either way, I now see what you all were talking about and agree that the true starter sets are a really good value.
I believe the "DCS lite" operating system available in the RailKing rtr sets you're referring to is the Remote Commander. It's capable of running a single loop and possibly two trains at once if the loop is large enough and both engines are matched in speed and willing to take the same commands simultaneously. It also has the added bonus of being able to change channels on Sayno televisions.
The LionChief Broadway Limited is available for as low as $280. A RailKing rtr Pennsylvania Passenger set from the same dealer is $324. The extra features available with PS-3 probably make the extra $45 worth it.
So it really comes down to personal preference. Until Lionel came out with LionChief I would have been more likely to look at MTH first. Now I tend to look at the LionChief products first. That's saying a lot for a "Southern Man" who isn't very fond of Niel Young.
tOriginally Posted by PJB:
Originally Posted by SJC:
I would strongly disagree with this comment. I've got the full blown DCS system on one loop and the DCS Remote Commander (from the RTR sets) on my inner loop as the full system REFUSES to work (check track, Out of range, etc) on the inner loop for one reason or another. Anyway, as long as you are pointing the remote at the receiver, I've found it to be a VERY reliable and easy to use system that does pretty much everything most people (myself included) use the "big" DCS system for. Very rarely does the engine start up and won't do anything else with the DCSRC. A re-boot solves that. Overall, I have a bit more fun using the "basic" system vs. the big boy system.
Originally Posted by Landsteiner:
True the MTH sets can be operated in command mode, but you have to come up with another $300 or so to buy DCS. The LionChief sets do not have that capability, but you can operate two LionChief locomotives, or more, independently and simultaneously on a layout or set of loops, which you cannot do with the MTH locos without DCS. The LionChief control system is radiofrequency from the handheld to the loco, whereas the MTH starter sets come with an infrared system of control, which is less reliable and easy to
No you don't. There are many Railking ready-to-run sets that come with a DCS-lite remote system. And even when the remote isn't included, the locomotive still comes with the entire PS3.0 package installed. I can tell you that a couple years ago I was amazed that the ready to run sets from Lionel came with a conventional loco, fogged glass freakishly light passenger cars and were still more expensive than the MTH ready to run sets that come with full PS3.0 and hefty fully detailed passenger cars. Anyway...
... I just took another look at the Lionel catalogue. I see what you mean. There are some true "purely starter" LC sets for like 100. And some decent sets for like $150. Fair enough, I wasn't really paying attention to these. I was looking at it the other way around - doing an apples-to-apples on a relatively "realistic" r-t-r set that I would actually buy. On this basis, I was looking at the Pennsy Broadway Limited LC set, which is $370. With frosted windows. Then saw the comparable Railking set, which is in the same price range (and had been for like ten years before the LC sets came to market) but with full PS3.0 and passenger cars with detailed interiors. On that basis, I didn't see this as anything more than Lionel's attempt to meet the competition.
Either way, I now see what you all were talking about and agree that the true starter sets are a really good value.
Just for clarity - my "no you don't" comment was in reply to Landtlsteiner's "true the MTH sets can be operated..." post, not the reply from SJC.
MatthewB - totally agree that it is a personal choice. But the point I was responding to (actually, I was more inquiring about) was the claim that Lionel has basically upped the bar on quality proposition in a r-t-r set. I have young children and am always looking for a better value for my money. But as it turns out, it seems "upping the bar" at least on an apples to apples basis, is probably more accurately stated as - Lionel is finally answering the competition. I suppose the take-away is that there is now a viable alternative to the value MTH has been giving the hobby for over a decade - which is good news!
Originally Posted by Matthew B.:
......It also has the added bonus of being able to change channels on Sayno televisions.....
They're voice-activated. Just say no.
Just curious. Why wish the scale pieces had Lionchief when they already have TMCC/Legacy. The same thing. I am still a bit confused on why all engines can't run remotely or conventionally. Sure, more features for the expensive stuff...but the basics should be the same. I would have purchased the new European Set if it was not pure LionChief.
Originally Posted by Mike W.:
Just curious. I am still a bit confused on why all engines can't run remotely or conventionally. Sure, more features for the expensive stuff...but the basics should be the same.
It's cost. Lionchief engines are designed for no-frills, basic control for beginners, who want to get in at a low cost. Think parents buying a first train for their child.
Having the ability - and the necessary extra electronics - to allow an engine to run both command and conventional, costs more to produce. If you want the ability to run both ways, you'll have to buy LionChief Plus engines, which incorporate a switch to change over to conventional operation. If you want more options, you have to pay more. Like cars, and everything else.
