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@rplst8 posted:

No, it doesn't affect my enjoyment at all. I was actually going to make a suggestion that Lionel focus solely on scale offerings but offer more fantasy schemes. Since the traditional and "realistic fantasy lovers" do not care about what is prototypically correct, and will buy pretty much anything Lionel offers, flashy eye catching paint schemes are probably the way to go. This would allow them to do larger runs of scale items and hopefully increase their ROI on new injection molds and dies.

Although I lean heavily to scale nowadays, and I have a layout that can run them, many folks don't have the space for O72 and larger curves.  That being said, there's certainly a significant market opportunity for semi-scale (aka LC, and LC+ 2.0) products.

@ScoutingDad posted:

I am a fan of Stout and have been watching a bidding on their "trains" for the past 3 years or so when I got back into the hobby. Take a look at the hammer prices on the post war trains - July 14th auction. Remember to add 19% and then $30 in shipping. Not sure I would agree people are losing interest in semi-scale. Appears to be pretty strong prices for trains that are pushing 70 years old.



The issue with Stout is that they tend to get the best condition examples of that old stuff, which has and holds real collector's value.  Go to a meet, club, or store and you see truckloads of old stuff, most with wear, chipped paint, or rust, but the seller expects a significant fraction of those Stout final prices for it.  That's a real turn-off for people, new to the hobby or not.  Ironically, Stout's one of the few places I've seen that will throw a bunch of the same borderline-junky car type into one lot and have it sell for a reasonable price.  That helps new folks bulk up their kids' collections without spending a fortune.

Lionchief is and should be primarily the intro/children's level offerings.  Kids don't care about or understand scale, and they aren't wowed by intricate detail or advanced features.  Now it is possible to strike a balance in the LC offerings; the LC+2.0 0-6-0T was a grand slam in all respects for both kids and adults. 

There are a lot of factors here, it also could be that Lionel's production capacity is in short supply and they are cutting what is being produced (I don't have any inside information, pure speculation, but giving the continuing shortages of everything thanks in large part to lockdowns in China, not entirely a guess).  I agree with others, that if some LC 2.0 products are getting cut back it could be the price has just gotten too high. LC originally was introduced for a train set like introduction to command control, you need need to shell out for a legacy base, the sets were moderately priced, and you had a simple remote. Then (in my view) they decided to offer semi scale or unique engines like the O-6-0 t (I finally found a BEDT version I was looking for), they basically brought command control to the semi scale arena. Lionel legacy units are scale; an LC Big Boy can run on smaller curves and give someone who loves the look of a big boy but doesn't have the space the fun of running one at a reasonable price compared to the legacy big boy.  Even on O72 the legacy Big Boy looks strained.

LC 2.0 is kind of to me like Railking from MTH, that was more moderately priced, was relatively decent representation of the prototype and had command control, yet could run on smaller curves.

And like the argument about 2 rail scale, yes, there are legacy units that can run on more modest curves..but again, like with my argument about the big boy, having a semi scale unit that can run on smaller curves allows people without big layouts not to have to limit themselves to switchers or small road diesels or steam. Same with semi scale freight and passenger cars as well. I have seen the LC 2.0 implementations of bigger steam units and to me they are still fun ..and the other factor as well, price. Someone might not be able to afford a 2000 buck legacy Big Boy, but could afford let's say a 600 buck LC 2.0 version of it.  But if the LC 2.0 big boy is now let's say 1200 bucks, people simply can't afford it, any more than they can afford a legacy big boy a 2k.  It is kind of like in the car world, where someone is looking to buy a new Toyota and is looking at a Corolla. Someone says "why a corolla, the Supra is a hot car". A corolla is a 20k car, a Supra is mid 40's to start. Someone else might come along and say "Well, the Camry is a nice car, too, why not buy that at 30k?" . Problem is that 20k is what they can afford. If they can get a lc 2.0 version of a big engine at a Corolla price, they will buy it, if it costs at the Camry level it might as well be the Supra in terms of affordability.

It is why I think semi scale is not going anywhere, because it can be an acceptable tradeoff to running models of a prototype that if it was full scale they couldn't. It is the nature of the hobby to have tradeoffs; scale equipment looks great, is prototypical, but can limit  what you can run in modest space. Things like LC 2.0 run on modest layouts, but they aren't totally protypical and they also tend to run to less than 1/48 size, so might look weird if mixed with scale oriented equipment.

I question whether non scale sized stuff is going to fade away for that reason, I think there are a lot more people with available layout space that is modest versus those who can build the layout with 096 curves and the like. Menards does pretty well with its offerings also because they are unique, filling gaps in either the post war or current semi scale world.

@johnstrains posted:

Yep, the "old" price was better but Ro just listed his. $294 for the 0-6-0T's LC+ 2.0. Not bad.

Not bad, the 0-6-0 T was like 220 at a discount, I think Roe if you ordered it early was as low as 199. But not surprising given the price of everything else. I picked one up NOS for like 270 recently thanks to a member on here having spotted it in a hobby shop.

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