LionChief Plus and Lionel's recent Quality Control Issues

I've seen my LC+ Berk's headlight flicker a few times and the sound cut out - very quickly - once when in reverse on a switch. I haven't run it much but I've been very, very happy with it. Had a train buddy of mine over - very much into MTH Railking, some Postwar, Standard Gauge, etc. Asked him why he never got into it....had him put the Berk on the track and run it. He went home and bought one - don't think he has opened it yet however due to a basement flood. The LC+ Berk is a really, really great engine. I was against buying "another" Postwar-styled Berk given I've got an original 726RR but I'm really happy I got it. 

I also have an older LC+ Pacific. Again, no issues. 

I had the LC+ Mikado that I had some issues with (sold it) and also had the LC+ Camelback that was also a fantastic runner and looked great but I never ran it and decided to let it go. 

Are you hearing problems from guys who  purchased the locomotives or from the armchair set?  It is always best to talk to the guy who has the locomotive to get the real story.   First hand information is always the best information.

Marty Fitzhenry posted:

Are you hearing problems from guys who  purchased the locomotives or from the armchair set?  It is always best to talk to the guy who has the locomotive to get the real story.   First hand information is always the best information.

I asked Ravenhawk if he knew if the Berks were affected with the recent quality control issues that the Legacy engines were having. Like smoke units cutting out, the lights not working, motor seizing. Shoddy repackaging, forgotten promises, etc. Granted that's the worst case scenario but getting back to the point. I asked him to see if he would know and he told me to ask people in the O gauge forums.

"Has there been any quality control issues with the LionChief line right now?"

Other than the occasional lemon or shipping damage, not to my knowledge nor in my experience.

Landsteiner posted:

"Has there been any quality control issues with the LionChief line right now?"

Other than the occasional lemon or shipping damage, not to my knowledge nor in my experience.

So not to the extent that the Legacy engines are having with the steam locomotives? Okay that helps! Thanks!

I bought a mikado at the 2017 amhurst show and ran great until it stopped smoking, Theres smoke in the unit but the fan dosen't turn on, with the smoke unit out of the engine and hooked up to power the fan runs fine now I don't know if its the smoke unit bad or the circuit card thats bad other than the smoke the engine still runs fine.

I bought a pacific last Dec. and right out of the box the engine would not get the signal from the remote right away, I had to walk around the layout until the engine would respond when it did respond and I would get it running I would sometimes lose control, It would run at watever speed it was last set at or somtimes it would just stop and beep, I sent it back and got a new replacement and that one has been running fine.

I bought a berkshire at this years amhurst show and that thing runs great and really smokes great. It also pulls really well, I put it in front of 8 williams 60' streamline cars and it pulls them up a 3% grade with no problems. I guess its hit or miss with what you get.

Landsteiner posted:

Other than the occasional lemon or shipping damage, not to my knowledge nor in my experience.

Just the occasional hollow axle: https://ogrforum.com/...llow-axles-watch-out

Or plastic gear: https://ogrforum.com/...tic-drive-wheel-gear.

These aren't quality issues persay, just by design.

I own more than 10 Lionchief engines built over a 4 year period.

Luck of the draw.  I've had warranty issues from Lionel  and MTH, both repair at no charge, you are just out of use of that engine for a bit.

With all the electronic in these engines, boards go bad. I bought 2 recently from Trainworld , diesils, that were bad out of the box, didn't run or stuck in reverse. Trainworld sent a RA label, replaced with new units ( that they tested before shipping back) and kept me informed of process along the way. 2 week turn around time. These engines were under new warranty so Lionel picked up the tab hats off to Trainworld , very professional.

Both had bad boards.

These are older Lionchief units from 2016 catalog.  I love Lionchief equipment and will buy more, all  types steam and diesel and electric. Fun to run and affordable.

TRAINWORLD cemented my business with them, they receive all my engine business now.

The Bluetooth feature is fantastic!

I was one of the  first S Gauge rtr P.E. FlyerChief set buyers. Immediately out of the box that engine was an anemic smoker and after a few hours it stopped smoking altogether. I returned it to Lionel and received it back within a week with a new fan driven smoke unit installed (FlyerChief engines are equivalent to LionChief+ engines). Since then, that engine's been working great. Of course the lighting in the coaches runs intermittantly and not at all in one due to using too short wire leads and also gluing rather than soldering those wire leads to the truck pickups, (the method used for the first production run of their S Gauge P.E. coaches.)

Very happy with my LC+ NJ Central Pacific I recently bought from a local train store that was in the 2017 catalogue and now in the 2018 catalogue, 

Talked to another local Forum member who won't buy any modern engines for fear he can't fix it and lack of available parts.

Good news is it seems from above replies that usually reputable stores and dealers will replace defective LC+ engines with good ones, at least shortly after purchase.

Also, seems MTH and Lionel will fix or replace recently purchased defective engines.

If a LC+ engine breaks down after warranty expires, lack of available parts and difficulty fixing it may be a problem.

If you think the above is not accurate, it would be helpful to mention that and reasons why.

Arnold

TRAINWORLD cemented my business with them, they receive all my engine business now.

You cannot beat Trainworld for standing behind a product.  There is someone on the other end of the phone, who knows what you are asking, and when they say they test it, they test it.  It has been for years, and the dedication of the Bianco family in maintaining that standard, set by Peter is an everlasting memorial to Peter Bianco.

And for me, Trainworld is my local shop.

ogaugeguy posted:

I was one of the  first S Gauge rtr P.E. FlyerChief set buyers. Immediately out of the box that engine was an anemic smoker and after a few hours it stopped smoking altogether. I returned it to Lionel and received it back within a week with a new fan driven smoke unit installed (FlyerChief engines are equivalent to LionChief+ engines). Since then, that engine's been working great. 

My flyerchief P.E. had poor smoke and stalled intermittently.  Returned to Lionel under warranty. Circuit Boards were loose probably from when Charles Ro shipped to me. That's probably a big part of the issues. There is no way to prevent damage from UPS,FED EX, USPS.

These things make it all the way here from China  tightly packed together in steel cargo container, and then get abused when shipped seperately across our country. A well packaged engine can be subjected to extreme centrifugal force when dropped or manhandled. Internal circuit boards and wiring are  plug ins, that can be jarred loose.

Not the Mtg fault, just the current state of our technology. Really the packaging is not designed for a 40 foot drop or a 15 foot toss from a conveyor belt into a truck bed. I for one am grateful for the 1 yr warranty.

My engine was repaired and runs and smokes flawlessly. No problems with the passenger cars either. Thank you Lionel .

I bought the LionChief Plus Camelback just before Christmas.  It’s been incredibly reliable ever since.

I should point out that I bought it from Lionel’s second hand sale, and was someone else’s return!

Jon

Locomotive arrived in the mail on Monday. Works amazing no problems to be seen yet. I didn't realize this but the smoke unit has an idle function so I found that pretty cool. And the Smoke Box door opens just like a legacy engine. Now that's awesome. Sounds great as well. Now just to get it repainted into the NKP 765 and get some number boards attached to it.

So far my Lionel Chief Plus 0-4-0 is doing great after two sound losses. Nicolas Smith was there behind the warranty service all the way. Same with Charles Ro in the past and TRAINWORLD.  Great that we have such good dealers in this hobby.

(Too bad I've had to put warranty repairs to the test at so many dealers.  LOL)

I have three LC+ locomotives and have had no problems with them. Operating all three via the app on my iPhone.

RickO posted:

Landsteiner posted:

Other than the occasional lemon or shipping damage, not to my knowledge nor in my experience.

Just the occasional hollow axle: https://ogrforum.com/...llow-axles-watch-out

Or plastic gear: https://ogrforum.com/...tic-drive-wheel-gear.

These aren't quality issues persay, just by design.

For what it's worth, all LC+ diesels going forward will have solid steel axles and metal gears.

Dave Olson posted:

RickO posted:

Landsteiner posted:

Other than the occasional lemon or shipping damage, not to my knowledge nor in my experience.

Just the occasional hollow axle: https://ogrforum.com/...llow-axles-watch-out

Or plastic gear: https://ogrforum.com/...tic-drive-wheel-gear.

These aren't quality issues persay, just by design.

For what it's worth, all LC+ diesels going forward will have solid steel axles and metal gears.

Good to hear! Looking forward to seeing what they can do once the modification has been made.

I should probably go ahead and register my LC trains. Been putting the paperwork off.

Deuce posted:

I should probably go ahead and register my LC trains. Been putting the paperwork off.

I don't run my trains that often so I usually don't register them. I just usually run them when I get bored. When I was younger I used to run them all the time and that's how my first Polar Express and my first Thomas locomotive got fried. Nowadays I'm more into video games then running trains. Maybe when I upgrade my layout and expand it I'll start registering them. 

Listen to the guys who have the locomotives and posted.   I get to see many locomotives doing repairs for Charles Ro.    Feel free to email me.  Again, always listen to the man who has the locomotive.   Always listen to Dave  Olson.  I do.  BTW, I have seen some great things with LC+.

Dave Olson posted:

RickO posted:

Landsteiner posted:

Other than the occasional lemon or shipping damage, not to my knowledge nor in my experience.

Just the occasional hollow axle: https://ogrforum.com/...llow-axles-watch-out

Or plastic gear: https://ogrforum.com/...tic-drive-wheel-gear.

These aren't quality issues persay, just by design.

For what it's worth, all LC+ diesels going forward will have solid steel axles and metal gears.

Hi Dave:

Do all LC+ diesels in the current 2018 Lionel catalogue have solid steel axles and metal gears? If not, which ones do?

Arnold

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

 

Do all LC+ diesels in the current 2018 Lionel catalogue have solid steel axles and metal gears? If not, which ones do?

Arnold

Anything that has not yet been built will have them. Anything already shipped does not. The change was just approved in January.

I bought a 6-38816 PRR LIONCHIEF PLUS RS-3 when they first came out. Didn't get much run time initially. When I did start running it recently, it broke and threw a drive gear (plastic) in the front truck. When I contacted Lionel, I was informed that the engine was past warranty.

Attempted a gear replacement, but ended up breaking the power wire in one of the truck frame grooves. Have tried replacing the wire with no success, it's tricky to run the wire correctly in the truck without damaging the wire.

So now it sits disassembled in a box somewhere underneath my layout.

My other two Lionchief Plus locomotives, a PRR A5 and Lackawanna Hudson have performed Flawlessly with a lot of operating hours.
Have been shying away from purchasing other Lionchief Plus diesels in fear of breaking more plastic gears.

Dave, from your comment above it seems like Lionel is on top of putting metal gears in the Locomotives, which would have solved the issues I ran into with my LC+ RS3.

Thanks.

Bruce

Dave Olson posted:

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

 

Do all LC+ diesels in the current 2018 Lionel catalogue have solid steel axles and metal gears? If not, which ones do?

Arnold

Anything that has not yet been built will have them. Anything already shipped does not. The change was just approved in January.

Dave,

Do you know if Lionel plans to offer replacement trucks with Solid Steel Axles and Metal Gears for those folks that were early adopters of LC+ engines?

Thanks!

Bruce

I've been out of the hobby for about a year, but recently reprised my layout. I have many LC+ locomotives, and the only issue I have is with the LC+ Rio Grande RS-3. It lurched. Lionel sent me an RMA + Shipping label, but when it came back, it's still lurched! Sent it back and when it returned, while it doesn't lurch anymore (they replaced the front truck,) now it makes a weird gearish/winding noise when you run the train where the rear is facing your right hand and the front is facing your left hand, works fine the other way around. I sent them a video of the issue, but haven't heard back from them yet. I wish they would just replace it (I dubbed it the Rio Grande Lemon Chief Plus) with a new one, as I only "tested" for 3 hours, but never got to actually enjoy using it.

All my LC+ steam engines run well and no issues (10 total, comprised of Mikado/Camel/A5's) However, personally, with the A5, I don't like what they did with the electronic cable connector (PITA connecting / disconnecting) nor with the location of the chuff/smoke switch. But I dread the day the PCB goes on these, let alone switching the traction tires on the steamers. My luck, the PCBs start going on these in 8 years from now and Lionel no longer have these available. Can't use and can't resell. An expensive paperweight.

Interesting article on the subject of longevity: https://dfarq.homeip.net/why-y...modern-lionel-train/

With the hobby having been around for so long why would they even think of using plastic in the drive line.  Since it always comes back to the money there's your answer.  If they weren't punished enogh for the repair that they have to eat they never would have gone back to metal.

I have a R&N Pacific LC+, and it's been perfect.  Wish that they would make matching properly sized passenger cars.  I guess I could use Williams silver Luxury Lines and not have a road-name conflict.

Alan

My Lionchief plus roster consists of a Pennsy A5 0-4-0, a Southern NW2, and a Santa Fe GP7. The first 2 run very smooth and fan driven smoke is great!

The GP7 which I believe is an early LC+ model is developing a grinding sound on the rear truck. There is 3 gears on the side of the rear truck and the middle gear appears very loose. I've yet to try to fix it.

But, overall I love the Lionchief plus line!

I have the LC+ FT AAs and a FT powered B Unit.  They work flawlessly.  The trucks seem to be magnetized however, and that means it has the chance of picking up any metallic debris on the track.  I keep my track pretty spotless so I don't worry about it though.

PRR Bruce posted:

Dave Olson posted:

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

 

Do all LC+ diesels in the current 2018 Lionel catalogue have solid steel axles and metal gears? If not, which ones do?

Arnold

Anything that has not yet been built will have them. Anything already shipped does not. The change was just approved in January.

Dave,

Do you know if Lionel plans to offer replacement trucks with Solid Steel Axles and Metal Gears for those folks that were early adopters of LC+ engines?

Thanks!

Bruce

@Dave Olson I would also like to know if replacement parts for the LionChief NW2 will include solid steel axles at some point. Metal gears would be nice, too.

I’ve had 5 lc+.  1 ran backwards only.  1 didn’t smoke.  1 didnt smoke and had a bad motor.  2 were ok.  Pretty bad odds.  

Just wanted to do an update. I got the Berk, and it works perfectly. There were some issues.(Creaky rods.) but they were fixed! SO, thanks everyone for your help and suggestions!

I recently purchased a Lion Chief plus E33 rectifier engine from Trainland and the salesman went through the process of taking the engine out of the original sealed carton and tested it. I had bought several engines before from Trainland (mostly Williams) this and they never tested it then. This leads me to believe that the current line of Lion Chief plus may have had quality control issues. Mine worked perfectly and I must say that this is my first experience with an engine that operates with a remote control and I am quite impressed. Probably the use of blue tooth remote control adds a degree of complexity in building it.

John F

"This leads me to believe that the current line of Lion Chief plus may have had quality control issues."

If so, I haven't experienced them.  Six for six perfect over recent years.  I think store owners are nowadays just more sensitive to the disappointment and frustration that occurs when a customer takes something home and it doesn't work.  One of the major advantages of a brick and mortar storefront is that they can avoid this situation.

we have 6 LC+ locos. run them on clean tracks and have never had a problem yet. affordable, but much better than the LC ones we have. love the sounds and speed control - especially slow speeds even when pulling many cars.

I have 7 LC+ locos:   My FT ABA set had a problem out-of-the box with smoke on one unit and lighting on another.  Both issues fixed by Lionel at no cost to me.   Other locos have been fine.   I ran the traction tires off of the Mikado, I ran it so much - have not yet replaced them.

I am very pleased with my most recent LC+ acquisitions: the SD-60M and Berkshire.   Very nice units.   And I love my FT set - they have Magnatraction as an un-advertised feature!   Very nice set with smoke on all units and two powered.

I have Legacy and DCS on my layout, but seem to only be purchasing LC+ recently.  I have the BNSF Tier-4 set on order.

Folks- I purchased a new 6-84472 Brass Hybrid Mikado from the Lionel Store some time ago. Since my layout is in my vacation home, I did not run it immediately after receiving it. When I finally put it on the tracks, it would not respond to the "set" command on my Cab2. I called tech support and they walked me through the usual suspects and none worked. I was sent a return authorization number and sent the piece back. After many weeks, it was returned to me and was supposedly repaired. I put it on the tracks, exactly as i have done to the hundred or so Lionel Legacy engines I own, and again it would not respond to the set command. I powered it up and tried about 30 times before it responded with a whistle. I set the run/program switch to run, and tried some of the menu buttons, which worked. I programmed the name and engine number and went back to the menu and it would not come up. The engine had also reverted back to the sound it makes prior to being programmed. I could not get the menu back up again. I tried it on every track, and in different locations on my layout, but nothing.

I called the Lionel Service Station this morning and let them know I was not happy. They offered (again!) to bring it back in for another round of so called, repairs. I told them that I either wanted a new engine or a full refund, because there is obviously a fatal flaw with this engine. I was told that Lionel had no inventory on the Mikado and if I wanted a refund, I would not receive a check until June or July!!! Apparently, Lionel only makes out checks quarterly. So, in a long winded way, I wanted to let all O Gauge hobbyists know that the experiment of selling trains by cutting out our local, and loyal dealers is a complete failure!! I was really conflicted in the beginning about purchasing the Mikado, because it cut out the dealers that have kept Lionel in business for so many years. I ended up buying it, and after a long wait, this is what happens. If I had purchased a bad engine from my local dealer he would have just ordered me a new one, or given me an immediate refund. It is also interesting to note that when I first called Lionel about the initial problem, I was told to bring it to my local service center (my local dealer) for him to repair. I would never have added insult to injury to ask him to repair an engine that he did not sell me or even have an opportunity to profit from.

I was wondering if anyone else has had these issues or experienced the same problems. As I said, I have many Lionel locomotives, both steam and diesel, including all of the Vision Line items, and have not had this kind of issue. The main reason is that I purchased most of what I have from my dealer and he would always make good on any problems. Lionel better get their act together.

I haven't been following for a while  and I know about the mogul problem  but is it correct to imply that there are "a bunch of problems with Legacy locomotives"? I don't mean any type of tone in my statement, honestly asking.  

pennsy484 posted:

.... is it correct to imply that there are "a bunch of problems with Legacy locomotives"? I don't mean any type of tone in my statement, honestly asking.  

Agree. From the OP's comments, his statement about "a bunch of problems" seems to be based largely on the experiences of a single individual, whoever Ravenhawk is. That's hardly a large enough sample upon which to draw any conclusions.