I have a newer LED 148 Dwarf signal and would like to connect it to my 036 remote switch. Can this be done? I've had horrible luck using the suggested connection in the instructions using insulated track sections and was hoping this might be possible and would make better sense operations wise. Thanks in advance.
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What are the product numbers for the two items? This would help.
Mike
# 148 dwarf signal 6-12883
Are you wanting the dwarf signal to indicate the presence of a train in the block as is prototypical, or are you instead wanting the dwarf signal it indicate the turnouts' position?
If block detection is preferred, we can help you with the insulated track connections.
Using the insulated track sections recommend cause alot of chatter via weight distribution etc. as I've read before on alot of posts on this forum. I'm looking to connect it a remote switch that would perform the same as the lantern on the switch and place the signal elsewhere.
@Regnildnas posted:Using the insulated track sections recommend cause alot of chatter via weight distribution etc. as I've read before on alot of posts on this forum. I'm looking to connect it a remote switch that would perform the same as the lantern on the switch and place the signal elsewhere.
I can think of 2 options to do what you want. Both would utilize the RSC Out and Ground terminals underneath a FasTrack Remote switch.
The RSC Out terminal produces a very low current drive to power the bi-colored LEDs inside the switch's remote controller. Relative to the adjacent Ground terminal under the switch, this RSC Out terminal produces a plus or minus 5VDC signal, depending on the position of the turnout. It's polarity determines whether the red or the green part of the LEDs inside the remote controller illuminates.
Option 1: would bypass the circuitry inside the #148 dwarf signal and connect from the FasTrack switch's RSC Out and Ground terminals through a current limiting resistor in series with the LEDs inside the dwarf signal. This would be the least expensive and electrically simple solution, but would require some soldering. If this option appeals to you, more details can be provided along with a wiring diagram if needed.
Option 2: would require no modification to the Dwarf signal, but would require some additional hardware. This includes an Optocoupler Isolation Relay module with external power supplied to it. These modules can be purchased to operate on a 5, 12, or 24V DC power supply. The FasTrack Switch's RSC Output and ground terminal could be connected to the Optocoupler Iso Relay module's low level trigger input.
The Red and black wires on the Dwarf signal would connect to either Track or accessory power from the transformer as shown in the #148 Owner's Manual. The Relay Module contacts could connect to the Dwarf signal yellow wire and the same power Common as connected to the #148's black wire.
Here is what the 5V modules look like. The ones made to operate on different power supply voltages look similar. All of them will trigger with the 5VDC output of the FasTrack switch's RSC Output.
If either of these options are appealing and you need additional info, please let us know.
The option 2 would be the best in my opinion. Do you have a diagram? Pretty much an intermediate when comes to electrical work. Where would the yellow wire on the 148 connect to? Thank you in advance and for everyone's help.
@Regnildnas Here is the Option 2 Wiring Diagram. Note that the FasTrack switch may still be powered in the usual way from either Track Power or Aux Power and that all AC voltage power sources should be phased.
The Direct Current Power Supply for the module shown below should match the voltage specified on the Optocoupler Isolation Relay module you choose (5, 12, or 24VDC).
The image below may be enlarged by clicking on it.
I hope this helps.
Is the direct power supply in the diagram from the track? This is the only thing I'm having trouble with. I have a separate power supply for all my accessories and a different one for track power. The FasTrack switchs run off of my accessories.
Are you using a Direct Current (DC voltage power supply, like a wall wart) or are you using an AC transformer to power your track?
Same question for accessories?
CW80 for accessories and GW180 for track power.
The CW80 and GW180 are both AC (Alternating Current) power supplies. It's fine to use those for track power, aux power and Fastrack Switch power.
The Optocoupler Isolation Relay Module's requires a DC (Direct Current) Power supply whose voltage is either 5, 12, or 24 Volts DC. It's possible you already have a 5 or 12VDC wall wart that could be used to power either a single (or multiple) modules in parallel. If not, they are relatively inexpensive.
That's the one that looks like this in the diagram.
I have a wall wart that came with a Lionel set, how would I hook it up to the relay?
The wall warts that come with Lionel starter sets are 18Volts DC and will not work correctly with any of these relay modules.
May I suggest this 5V wall wart:
https://www.amazon.com/iMBAPri...2399822621&psc=1
It has enough power for supplying multiple relay modules.
And if you get that, then these 5V optocoupler isolation module packages would work with it:
https://www.amazon.com/HiLetgo...645474317&sr=8-6
OR
https://www.amazon.com/Channel...pY2s9dHJ1ZQ&th=1
The simplest way to connect the wall wart is to cut off the barrel connector from the end or the cord, identify which wire is positive and which is negative using a DC multi-meter and connect the wires to the corresponding DC+ and DC- terminals on the relay module as shown in the diagram.
I ordered the 12V Modules that you recommend earlier in this thread, the 4 pack, will these work or do I need the 5V ones?
The 12V modules are fine as long as they are provided with a 12VDC power supply. Here is a 12V wall wart that would work with the 12V modules:
@SteveH posted:The 12V modules are fine as long as they are provided with a 12VDC power supply.
...
This is just for @SteveH . Kind of nerdy, devil-in-the-details, but...
I couldn't quite tell exactly which 12V relay module is being used, but note that there can be an issue with SOME of these opto-isolated DC relay modules. Specifically, SOME use an AC-input optocoupler on the trigger input. This allows simple 1-pole selection of the trigger polarity (Low or High) using a single push-on programming jumper on a 3-pin header. However, because it's an AC-input optocoupler, it will trigger the relay on, say, 5V or -5V! So if those are your two signal levels there will be disappointment. I apologize if this is all under control.
@stan2004 thank you for letting me know that some of the available Optocoupler's have an AC trigger input. I appreciate you weighing in here.
I'm not sure I follow the entirety of your description about potential issues. Thanks to you, I now understand that some modules have DC and some have AC input triggering.
Questions:
@Regnildnas will you please post a link here to the actual 12V Optocoupler Isolation Relay Modules you purchased, so that we can figure out whether anything else needs to be done?
Would this work?
@Regnildnas posted:Would this work?
That's the right DC voltage for the 12V modules. I'm not sure how much current the modules you bought will draw from that adapter, but it's 1/2Amp (500mA) output capacity should be enough for 4 modules.
Will you please post a link to the actual Optocoupler Isolation Relay modules you purchased?
@SteveH posted:
...Questions:
- Are you saying that some AC input trigger modules have an input polarity (Low/High) selection jumper and some don't?
- Are you also saying that if an AC input trigger module has the polarity selection jumpers it will or will not work correctly in this application?
- If not and the modules purchased by @Regnildnas happen to be of an incompatible AC input type, would a 1N4001 or similar connected with the correct orientation in series with the optocoupler's trigger input provide the desired operation?.
1. Not exactly. I am not aware of any "AC-input" triggers for these DC-relay modules. There are relay modules that do NOT have a trigger polarity selector and instead just say "HI trigger" or "LO trigger" rather than "HI/LO selectable trigger." The HI/LO selection is almost universally done with a push-on programming jumper plug.
2. No exactly. I'm saying the relay modules that offer selectable HI/LO polarity triggers use an AC-input optocoupler which makes the circuitry simpler to select between HI and LO triggering. Details below.
3. Yes! Of course it's kind of irksome that you have to buy 50 or 100 or whatever minimum quantity of what should be 1-cent diodes (any generic diode will do) when only 1 is needed.
OK to peel a layer of the onion. Eye-glazing-over alert!
Again, this may not apply to the module in question, but consider the following:
For a DC-relay module, the "model" is fairly simple. That is, if HI polarity triggering, you apply VCC (5V. 12V or whatever) to IN and the relay turns on; apply 0V or leave floating and the relay turns off. Or, if LO polarity triggering, apply 0V and the relay turns on; apply VCC and relay turns off.
If you go sketch out how to implement this, it turns out that using an AC-input opto-coupler as shown in diagram allows you to use a single-pole (SPDT) selector to choose polarity. You kind of have to sit down and draw it out to appreciate why an AC-input optocoupler simplifies matters. But in words, an AC-input optocoupler has 2 LEDs (a and b in diagram).
If the LO polarity jumper is installed, when the input is LO (0V), LED a turns on and the relay turns on.
If the HI polarity jumper is installed, when the input is HI (VCC), LED b turns on and the relay turns on. BUT. I don't think the designers of this module anticipated -5V DC would be applied. With HI polarity selected, if you apply -5V DC then LED a turns on and the relay turns on.
I can see the heads spinning. But if you go thru the configurations and scenarios, it turns out that the AC-input optocoupler actually simplifies the circuit. Earlier versions that used DC-input optocouplers (only 1 internal LED) typically used a 2-pole selector requiring 2 programming jumpers.
@stan2004 Thank you for the excellent detailed explanation. 
This all makes perfect sense to me now.
So, now we wait for the link to the actual module to find out if diodes are needed (one per module).
And if so, this is what the revised diagram would look like:
Here's a link to the Diodes if needed:
OR
Here you go
Use diode.
Yes. Jumper High.
Again thank you, I will be tackling this sometime next week and will post results for all that is interested. Definitely a great alternative for these dwarf signals. If I have any more questions I will let you know. Cheers.
Got everything hooked as provided to the diagram and no luck. I have power but it's on green and doesn't alternate between green and red when you throw the switch.
Will you please post a picture showing all of the connections and the top side of the relay module? Also do you have a multi-meter?
If the diode is installed backwards that will block the Optocoupler relay from seeing the change in voltage on the RSC terminal and inhibit triggering. That's worth re-checking.
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