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Lionel 165 Magnetic Crane Accessory

dkdkrddkdkrdOGR Forum Member

OK...My previous post was an attempt to search for archived Lionel service documents re this accessory (earliest versions, only).   I don't think such info is really that easily found (except for the wiring diagram), so to be more precise on my question...

It has to do with the cable spool/shaft...the main component for winding the string/cable that lifts the magnet up/down.  In taking the device apart, I notice that the metal spool freely spins on its shaft.  There is a hex screw at the spool end of the shaft I tried tightening it by gripping the shaft only to discover that there must be an internal shaft serving as an electrical conductor for illuminating the cab lamp when the accessory is activated.  Clever.  But when trying to tighten the hex screw, gripping the main shaft, the screw will not tighten any further but spins freely...along with the tiny hemispheric internal shaft end at the opposite end from the spool!!  And there's seemingly no way to grip this internal shaft!  So this hex screw is really threaded into that internal shaft.  But the motor-driven worm gear to provide for spool winding is not attached to the internal shaft, but the external shaft.

With the insulating washers, top and bottom, isolating the two concentric shafts, it's almost as if Lionel was creating some sort of friction 'clutch' for the cable spool...but I don't know why, because if you let the spool run continuously it would simply begin winding up after winding out completely, no change of direction!?

This is why I was searching for Lionel original service documents.  It is not at all apparent how to tight that hex screw to keep the cable spool itself from freely spinning.  I wouldn't be a bit surprised if my above description is a bit of Greek to a reader without some pictorial/diagram/assembly instructions...such as Lionel would've created for full documentation.  It'd be nice to use correct part names/numbers as the manufacturer might have applied.

If anyone comprehends the problem, has dealt with it themselves, has info or a solution, ...I'm all ears.

And, thanks for taking a moment to consider.

KD

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dkdkrddkdkrdOGR Forum Member
@rrswede posted:

KD, have never worked on a 165 but spotted a Technical Manual on Ebay that may be helpful.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/352878376586

Good luck, swede

Wow!!  Thanks!! 

Definitely would have far more in its 21 pages than I've been able to find so far!  The seller has been around for more than 15 years and has a sterling feedback record.  I probably will pursue this.

Appreciate the find very much!

KD

S SPIKEOGR Forum Member

I have not worked on the early version of this crane in a bazillion years however, if memory serves me correctly, it is a clutch system that works the raising and lowering of the hook.  I also believe, the controller for the early versions operated a little differently than the newer ones. I cannot remember which function it is, but I believe on o. Functions requires both levers at the same time to make that particular function work. Several years ago, someone posted the directions for the earlier version on this forum.  I only remember that because I printed them off for a friend of mine.  Look through the historical info on this site.  Maybe you will be able to find them.

dkdkrddkdkrdOGR Forum Member

Thanks for all the help.

Late yesterday, Wednesday 12JA22, the 165 sprang to life!!  The solenoids work fine, the cable spool rotates smoothly in both directions carrying the magnet up and down, the magnet and cab bulb activate on cue, the cab rotates smoothly 360º in both directions.  All that with fresh paint, repaired/replaced parts as necessary...

We celebrated!

Here's a partial list of discoveries, repairs, remakes, replacements...

Controller:

  • The 4' 6-wire cable as received is still supple, no cracking.  So it was retained.
  • The four red buttons were another matter!  They would fall through their holes in the controller front.  (holes wore or buttons shrank?) Made 4 ring washers of thin brass to compensate and retain.
  • Magnet actuation switch required contacts cleaning and adjustment of their leaf springs.


Sheet metal (Tower, Cab, Roof), cast accessory/cab bases:

  • Cleaned, re-painted in silver, cream, red, green accordingly.


Boom:

  • Not sure it is original.  Main problem was enlarged pivot hole (sloppy fit) and stripped screw holes for the magnet/light bulb contact.
  • Pivot hole re-lined with aluminum tubing.  Screw holes re-lined, re-tapped with styrene tubing.
  • Boom re-painted black.
  • The simulated (bent wire) boom support was missing; now refabricated from music wire.  The boom attachment point for this was broken; re-fabricated with styrene before final painting.


Motor:

  • Cracked/broken brushplate! (Late discovery!)  Clean breaks.  Tried CA...seems to have worked.  Have since ordered replacement original brushplate just in case.
  • Commutator cleaned, worm cleaned, re-oiled bearings


Gear Drive Mechanism:

  • Cleaned all parts and re-lubed during re-assembly.


Cable Spool/Shaft:

  • This is the item I pondered in my original post for this thread.  I was finally able to assure that the spool would rotate in tandem with the shaft by adding a split O-ring to the top inner cavity of the spool.  I determined that a standard plumbing O-ring (faucet repair part) about 1/2" OD, 3/32" thickness,  with a single cut, could be jammed into spool cavity adjacent to the shaft/washers hub.  The O-ring cut was positioned to clear the cable knot.  Works dandy!
  • BTW, the cable (thread) is, indeed, original and in fine shape.


Wiring:

  • As stated above, there was no need to replace wiring from the controller box to the accessory.
  • All wiring running up the tower legs between the controller connection beneath the base and the motor, solenoids, magnet/bulb contacts was replaced with #22 wire using the same color coding as specified in the repair manual.

Operation:

  • The pivoting of the cab on the tower platform was sloppy, IMHO.  The cab/boom assembly would rock back-and-forth during change of direction, rotation, cable operation, etc..  I decided that the short pivot  bearing length, imbalance of the cab/boom assembly, possible wear of the bearing hole all played in the erratic motion.  I was able to eliminate most of this by adding about 3 oz. of weight to the inside back end of the cab (plenty of room).  This seemed to solve the boom-heavy imbalance of the cab assembly, allowing it to remain stable during operation.


Well, that's about it!  Quite a learning experience all in all. 

Thanks, again, for all the encouragement and help.

KD

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