Lionel 180w bricks are back!

Hi Ron,

It's quite OK to turn one of your PowerHouse transformers off when you don't need the extra power. Turning one off creates an electrical break in the circuit. 

The potential for injury comes if you have two or more in parallel and unplug one, but leave it switched on. A transformer works both ways, so if you have an unplugged transformer with 10A @ 18V being fed into it, then there is approximately 1.5A @120V being output to the power plug. It's actually slightly less due to some power being lost in the conversion process, but still plenty enough to be dangerous if you touch the plug prongs. 

PJB:

Reading through the replies and looking at your questions it sounds like there are two topics here.

If I am not mistaken you are asking how to phase the 180 watt PH to your wall socket and to your TIU. In that case the power cord plug on the PH has one fat blade so you can only plug it into the wall socket one way. As long as you are working off one wall plug and a powerstrip this should put all PHs 'in phase'.

The second part is 'phasing' the output wire of the PH's to your TIU. As mentioned in other replies both Eric's blog 18 and Mike Reagan's video cover this. I viewed Eric's video and it covers connecting the PH to a TIU in an excellent manner. Only issue was how he found which wire was hot and which was ground. I am a little antsy on sparking expensive power supplies though Eric is quite explicit in saying his method won't harm the PH. An alternative way is Reagan's video in which he tells you one wire is ribbed and the other is smooth. I don't remember whether the ribbed wire is ground or power so you will need to review the video to find out. Once you know which is which if you want run Eric's test to be sure.

Hopefully I got this straight

Joe  

PJB,

If you are still having trouble after the videos, just get the PH-TIU cables from CT McCormick I mentioned in my post earlier in the thread. Someone else also mentioned them later in the thread. These will take care of your phasing and connection problems automatically. All you have to do is plug them in and you are ready to go. No cutting off plugs and trying to figure anything out for proper phasing.

If you have any of the older versions of the PH-180's that were wired wrong from the factory, then you may need to follow the advice in the videos for those. If they are all newer versions, you should be fine with the above cables. The videos would still be good to watch for a better understanding of what phasing is, even if you use the pre-made cables.

Hey thanks all. Watched Eric's video and with the last few recent replies above, it sounds like much adieu about nothing. If I'm understanding correctly, basically, I should do what I was already going to do - all PHs plugged into same power strip. Each PH hot connected to one hot TIU post. Same for each common. Done. For whatever reason, it sounded like there was a lot more to worry about, like I needed to run a wire between all hots on all PHs.  but from the recent posts and Eric's video, clearly not the case.  Want to also say - I really appreciate this site. I'm a novice, I ask a lot of questions. But within a few hours, a bunch of you are willing to - very patiently - offer lots of help and advice.  Thanks!!   Also - Ron - no apology necessary. I see this forum as an open forum to share. Your post and query only contributed.     Peter  

As a follow up, I work with several electrical engineers and chatted about the phasing issue at lunch.  For other novices like me -  there is another simple way to phase - plug all transformers into the same outlet and, to test for comfort, just put the multimeter on the tracks once you power it up (no train on track). It will tell you if you're at desired voltage or not.  Once again, thanks to everyone who weighed in. While the issue is easy to resolve, if y'all hadn't said anything about it, not knowing about it could have been disastrous.  Peter

I recommend you leave both powerhouses plugged in and turned on.  Transformers do not draw much power if there is no load on them.  So its OK to leave them both on while you are running the trains.  You will not waste much electricity.  Also as mentioned before it is probally safer then having them unplugged.

Q - How do we tell if we have an 'older' version of the 180 PH?

I obtained one from here on the Forum awhile back and have no idea which one it is...

I want to thank Jason and Nicole for their excellent inputs to my question, even though I kind of stepped on PJB's thread (thanks, PJB, for not getting mad).

Jim,  I'm not worried about power consumption as much as I am about putting 20 amps to the track with both PHs on (actually, I will limit it to 15 amps with a quick acting fuse).  While I have had no problems in the past with running trains with 20 amps to the track (no derailments), there are several forum members that have some good stories about the welding action during derailments caused by 20 amps.  I plan to run trains slow and carefully when both PHs are on.

Ron

Sam, there's a date code on the bottom of the brick.  When Lionel released the "phase adapter" to fix the inverted factory wiring, they indicated all units with date code "2000 48" and earlier were affected.

David

On the Powerhouse connection question....

I have always cut the plugs off in favor of spade lugs because it gets rid of the adapters and additional wire clutter. Equally important it enables one to connect to any terminal such as a railpower distribution strip, or TIU posts or TPC terminals--just easy and more flexibility of extending power from the O-gauge unit with the fastest circuit breaker and 180 watt capacity.  

Does anyone know a good method to attach wire to the A and U posts on the Legacy Powermasters? It is basically a screw and thumbwheel.

I first tried a spade lug but no matter how hard I tighten the thumbwheel if I move the powermaster the spade lug moves and the connection loosens. I have moved over to a ring lug which is slightly better but I still have the issue with the connection loosening up.

Thanks

Joe

Joe

I have always used miniature serrated lock washers on the spade or ring lugs under the binding post nut or terminal strip screw if the problem you depict occurred. It solved the problem for me to stabilize the binding post connections on the 3 pw ZWs I used in the early days.

Simple and sweet. Dewey you are the man always have been always will be!

Ron, 

I see what you trying to do now.  I know you want to use your TPC400 but have you considered just separating your layout into two blocks.  You can feed the two blocks through two channels on the TIU.  This way the 10 amp power house breakers will work great for overload control.  In my experience when you separate your layout into blocks correctly you seldom run into the case of two many engines in one block.  Of course if you do a 10 engine lashup this probably does not apply.

The TPC400 is not used in this case which you might not want to do.

Jim

Jim,

Your block setup has been recommended to me in the past by those who don't like my high power arrangement.  Using separately powered blocks would be simpler and work well if I'd replace all my passenger car lights with LEDs (don't want to right now).  However, three powered engines and 11 lighted cars takes one PH180 to its limits.  I'm putting in 15 amp fast blow fuses between the TPC and the terminal blocks because that is all the power I think I will need.  Plus I already own 4 TPC400s and 9 PH180s.  Also, I'm just stubborn.

While I run command control (both DCS and Legacy), I want to be able to run conventional if needed.  My setup has conventional operation through the TPCs because the TIU is wired in passive mode.

Below is a mostly accurate electrical schematic of my layout.  The relays shown in bottom center to handle the 15 amps will be replaced by manual switches.

Ron

Ron,

Very impressive.  Do you have a youtube channel or photos of your layout.  Would love to see the consist of engines and passenger cars.

Jim

Jim,

I'm rebuilding my layout; all I have at the moment is a small oval test track.  The layout will be a two level, 90 degree bent dogbone that is 30' on a side.

You can see pictures of the cars from my 80'/85' passenger set in last weekend's Photo Fun 6/13/14, first page near the bottom.  I'd post a link but haven't figured it out yet.  Only a couple of the cars have LEDs.  The K-Line cars have the power consuming "Streamlighting".

I have a similar 18" set mostly made up of K-Line cars, again with K-Line's "Streamlighting".  This set actually consumes more power than the scale set.

Ron

John, I'm confused. On the back of my powerhouse it shows the middle pin on the molex at AC+(hot).

On your adapter the middle wire on the molex is black.

Is there a reason for that?

Did the connector come wired that way maybe?

You might check out the TMCC Direct lockon, it plugs into the 180 Watt brick and provides instant short circuit power protection, it works very well and trips long before anything else I have tried or the bricks short circuit protection kicks in. It has an automatic reset to it. Here are the details from the Lionel Website of the most recent version; You can screw wires to the posts inside. A photo below of how I have it hooked up on my portable power supply for home or train shows;

180 Watt bricks to the Direct lockon the silver track side boxes, then power to TIU TMCC spliced in.

1 brick and protection circuit powers ports 1 and 2 on the TIU and other brick the 3/4 ports. This system has worked very well for many years for me.

Click on photo for a larger view.

6-34120
Connect your PowerHouse Power Supply directly to the track with the TMCC Direct Lockon. Featuring a selectable current setting (for the 135-Watt or 180-Watt PowerHouses), the Direct Lockon eliminates the need for a PowerMaster if you run only TMCC- or LEGACY-equipped locomotives. For added safety, the Direct Lockon provides over-current protection and an automatic reset. It is compatible with both Lionel FasTrack and O/O27 track systems. includes power wire with FasTrack connectors and one standard Lionel Lockon.

Originally Posted by kj356:

You might check out the TMCC Direct lockon...

 

...For added safety, the Direct Lockon provides over-current protection and an automatic reset...