LIONEL 2-Rail Conversion Kit 6-84462

"Right off the bat these kits are not suitable for spinning roller bearing truck conversion as the axles provided in these kits are pointed axles suitable for friction bearing trucks"

Yes, as far as I know, they are for converting the newer Lionel plastic trucks to 2 rail. Look at this post:

https://ogrforum.com/...ew-lionel-for-2-rail

I wish Lionel had at least kept the K-line 2 rail wheels alive for us. They had them in a catalog and I tried to order them years ago from a dealer who later replied they were no longer available.

 Lionel had announced that they left 2 rail. So anything we get, is good. They at least offered KD mounting pads and that helps a lot. If they made a 2 rail version of their steel modern roller bearing truck for their cars, I think it would sell. They dabbled with the Weaver plastic offering and that may not catch on??

Dear Walt, et al,

I am presently installing the Lionel 70 ton 2 rail wheel sets ending with -63 on the 16 car C&O 70 ton 79000

to 79999 LionScale  hopper cars I purchased.

I will send some photos of the installation of these conversions in the next few days.

These are tricky even for someone like myself who has done many conversions over the years.

The first conversion took about 2/3 hours and the second was about 30 minutes.

Please remember I am installing the 70ton not 50 ton wheel sets which you have.

All for now. John P.Dunn Sr.

Walter Horlacher posted:

It may be straight forward with LionScale the former Weaver Line but for Lionel Scale cars I'm in the dark here. Right off the bat these kits are not suitable for spinning roller bearing truck conversion as the axles provided in these kits are pointed axles suitable for friction bearing trucks.

6-84462 is the sku for the 50 ton trucks. I.E. journal boxes

6-84463 is for the 70 ton trucks - rotating bearing caps.

As someone above mentioned, these are only for our new trucks. These will fit the trucks we use on LionScale cars and the trucks we use on scale freight cars. The new trucks have the ABS bolster. These kits will not work on the older scale trucks - the stamped metal frame with the hidden uncoupling tab.

Thanks Dave!

Dave

Thanks for the clarification, I have Lionel Auto Racks and 86' Auto Box cars that I have converted already ether by machining Atlas axles to fit or using other manufacturers trucks. So when I read on the package that these conversion kits contained bolsters for LionScale and Lionel scale freight cars I thought the latter would be suitable for the Lionel 86' Auto Boxcar on he bench now. I tried several times to contact Lionel regarding instructions with no success, All is not lost, I will keep the conversion kits for LionScale application, in the meantime my order just arrived in the mail from NWSL with the proper axle sets to convert roller bearing Lionel trucks.

Hey there John, Please do share some photos. I have done a few conversions myself but never used the Lionel conversion product, my wheel sets just happened to arrive from NWSL today, so all is good. I have been very active in 2-rail O Scale for a few years years....OK half Century, I just turned 62.  I have  not actively participated in Forums since Atlas shut theirs down. I do participate with an  O Scale modular group down here in South Florida and we like to run really long trains, you can see us on YouTube under Southeastern Florida O Scalers. There are plenty of Lionel and MTH Conversions including some locomotives to be seen. But the I can't take credit for the locomotives those are Gary Claiborn's conversions.

Engineer-Joe posted:

I wish Lionel had at least kept the K-line 2 rail wheels alive for us. They had them in a catalog and I tried to order them years ago from a dealer who later replied they were no longer available.

 Lionel had announced that they left 2 rail. So anything we get, is good. They at least offered KD mounting pads and that helps a lot. If they made a 2 rail version of their steel modern roller bearing truck for their cars, I think it would sell. They dabbled with the Weaver plastic offering and that may not catch on??

I'm with you, I'll take anything Lionel offers up in scale and the fact that they are incorporating Kadee coupler pads in their design is a plus plus, they even included extended coupler pockets on the 86' Auto Boxcar  for Kadee 746 long shanked couplers. If they made 2 rail trucks I would buy them.

Dear Walter, et al,

Per my previous email on this thread,

I have attached photos of the Lionel 2 rail conversion install on the LionScale/Weaver 3 Bay C&O 70 ton hopper cars.

Hope these photos help.

Regards,

John

Strasburg Show 08-10 , 10-12-2019

John those C&O hoppers look good. Thanks for shareing photos.

John thanks for sharing the photos, your conversion looks clean and demonstrates pretty straight forward conversion on the LionScale cars, unfortunately thats not the case with Scale Lionel cars such as the auto-racks or 86' foot boxcars. On the LionScale cars your bolster springs are held in place by the side frame on the bottom and the by brake shoe assembly on the top. On the other hand as you know the Lionel Scale trucks you must retain the bolster as that holds the bolster springs in on the top, I  have converted these trucks successfully many times in the past but certainly is a process. It is miss leading on the Lionel Packaging as it states for LionScale and Lionel Scale.  It obvious that it great  for LionScale products as you have shown us John.  I really would like to know what Lionel means by Lionel Scale on the conversion kit packaging as it certainly does not apply to traditional Lionel Scale cars such as the 86' auto box car and the like, so what application would the other set of bolsters in the packaging be used for? Maybe Dave can chime in here to answer that question. In the meantime I will document my next conversion with photos to share with the group.

Have a pleasant and relaxing weekend, say anybody going to "O" National/ West next weekend? I went to "O' Scale West for the first time in 2017, it was a hoot! rent a car for the layout tours. I was planning on going this year but between work and having foot surgery this week prevents me from attending this year. I will certainly go out there again but next time  I will catch the catch the California State Railroad museum in Sacramento as well.

Later

Walt

I used Atlas 70T roller bearing trucks to convert an 86’ boxcar. I had to shim the bolsters with 4 or 5 nylon washers to achieve the correct height for the Kadee couplers and to allow for side-to-side clearance of the wheels. I believe the next run of 86’ boxcars will accept Lionel’s conversion kit.

Well there is a reason for that, TOFC, Auto Racks and 86' Auto Box cars ride on 33" 70 ton Roller bearing trucks as apposed to the 36" 100 Ton  trucks, these trucks are more at home with heavy haulers like modern  Hopper, Tanks and the like.

 I have converted 11 MTH Auto racks and even with the 70 ton 33" roller bearing trucks, the bolster are still a bit too high for my liking, so I lowered 3/32" by boring out the king pin hole until the truck rests on the outer MTH truck bolster ring and then milled out the coupler mounting pad and lateral deck supports directly under the trucks  flush with the with the deck for that proper Low-Ride look. They look, perform great on our modular layout. See us on YouTube under Southeastern Florida O Scalers

Sincerely Walt

aka Waldo

Conductor FEC Hialeah Yard 1989-91

Dear Walt, et al,

Please note attached photospper of before and after 2 rail conversion of the C&O 79000 series 3 bay hopper cars.

It is interesting with adding Kadee’s, air hoses and appropriate weathering the tremendous difference in the car.

Thanks, John

Strasburg Show -08/10 , 10/12/2019

John, nice work!

Dan Weinhold

John,

Nice work! 

Walter Horlacher posted:

Well there is a reason for that, TOFC, Auto Racks and 86' Auto Box cars ride on 33" 70 ton Roller bearing trucks as apposed to the 36" 100 Ton  trucks, these trucks are more at home with heavy haulers like modern  Hopper, Tanks and the like.

 I have converted 11 MTH Auto racks and even with the 70 ton 33" roller bearing trucks, the bolster are still a bit too high for my liking, so I lowered 3/32" by boring out the king pin hole until the truck rests on the outer MTH truck bolster ring and then milled out the coupler mounting pad and lateral deck supports directly under the trucks  flush with the with the deck for that proper Low-Ride look. They look, perform great on our modular layout. See us on YouTube under Southeastern Florida O Scalers

Sincerely Walt

aka Waldo

Conductor FEC Hialeah Yard 1989-91

 

 

 

 

 

Are you talking about the newer MTH racks with the trucks in the right place as opposed to the older ones? The older ones (and the older center beam flats) need to have the truck mounts relocated and notching the end sill to properly locate the couplers.

Matt

That's correct I was referring to the newer ones with the trucks on the correct location. That was a great design change for MTH. I run my MTH along with the scale length Lionel Auto racks placing Atlas articulated auto-racks in the mix and you can't spot the fact that the MTH cars are slightly shorter than scale Lionel counterpart. I think we have a YouTube Video of that mix . Search for "Southeastern Florida O Scalers'

In keeping with my transition away from pizza cutter flanges, I picked up a few sets of the Lionel Roller Bearing replacement axles after finding out they were on the streets from this post. The wheels appear to be the more modern code 145 profile . They're 33" wheels, but I believe that 36" wheels would be more appropriate for the 66-foor mill gondolas I plan to convert.

The best setup (for me) was to use the replacement truck cross beam with the approximately 1/8" riser in the middle. The replacement beam without the riser put the gondola extremely low, which looked really good but restricted the truck movement to the point I suspect the gondola wouldn't negotiate a 36" radius curve and also put the couplers lower than they should be (maybe they'd be right for 36" wheels). Here are a couple of photos at the club layout. With the 33" wheels, the brake shoes are a bit far from the wheels, but with the 36" wheels, the car would sit higher and require shims. The original truck cross beams (about 1/8" higher than the conversion parts I used) were set up to allow the car to clear the larger 3-rail flanges and allow for sharper curves (27"/O-54). The next step is to convert the other two gondolas and a couple of Lionel PS4427 hoppers.

Here you see the gon coupled to one of my MTH 2-rail GP35's (operating in 3-rail mode at the club). It derailed at one curve on the layout which I think is out of gauge. Looks like I have some work for next weekend.