Lionel 2000 Gold Scale Hudson??

I can't answer your question, but that is a nice engine for sure.

It would be kind of neat to put it side by side with the MTH gold #2000 scale Hudson and see how they compare.

 

Rod

Personally I prefer the wireless tether, deep synchronized chuffing and excellent whistle on the Lionel one. Though MTH's has the advantage of the DC can motor.

No Comparison...LIONEL

I was really refering to the overall size, looks, and cosmetic details.

I would never likely run either of them anyway. Just for display.

The MTH is of course the old PS-1 electronics. But even if upgraded it would not see more than a few minutes of run time.

 

Rod

 

I have one, along with the matching caboose, and it was my understanding that it was made at the Michigan plant.  I assume the plating would have been done somewhere in the Detroit area.  It is a great display piece and my wife insisted that it be placed on the mantel in the living room.  She also told me never to run it, but I did sneak it downstairs once for a couple or so laps around the basement. Please don't tell!!! 

Good for you John - I for one would run this no matter what if I could acquire one. My mother told me never to buy trains as display pieces, it's a big fat waste of money - her money.

 

And Rod, I for one also kinda prefer the looks of the Lionel one better as well as the aesthetics. Even though MTH's classification lights illuminate, the way MTH put them on their Hudsons is kind of a turn off for me, and Lionel's has the functional radius rod and lubrication lever.

I've had the 1st PS1 Premiere Hudson alongside the highly-touted K-Line scale Hudson and there is really not a lot of difference. Yes, the K-Line is more detailed and has a 'finer' look to it but the 16 year old MTH model still pretty well holds it's own!

Could the Lionel be the 'oddball'?

 

The MTH is the one in the rear w/silver handrails...

I have the first mth premier nyc Hudson also-love it-catalog says 500 pieces made to produce it.samhoungsa made.

The MTH model looked better; the reason being Lionel model came from the original tooling and the engine plating didn't look clean (the tender looked great). I bought the Lionel.

Scott Smith

I think the Lionel looks better as the purity of the gold was higher. I believe the Lionel was 24k gold plating with platinum accents. I believe the MTH was only 18k gold plating. Not to mention, to me it was really about Lionel celebrating 100 years (with caboose) as well as the Millennium. Where as MTH was just celebrating the Millennium. Before I get attacked, yes I have one of each.

Mike,

 

Ah yes, the gold 700E. The first major project that I kicked-off. Lots of stories on how this one came to be...

 

The gold Hudson was indeed made in North America. Even the electronics! The only thing I can recall being made offshore would be the tender's ElectroCoupler, but it's possible there could have been something else minor as well.

 

I say North America versus USA because Lionel had some die-casting done over the border in Windsor, Ontario, but I honestly don't recall precisely where the major components were cast on this one.

 

The caboose was made in Korea, and we went through several samples before we got a good match on the plating.

 

Enjoy!

Todd Wagner

Interesting observation, and one I've not heard before.

 

The locomotive tooling was new in 1990, but the tender was the original 1937 tool. If anything, I would have thought the tender would have been more rough on the sample that you saw.

 

TRW

I believe it was because Lionel used the new 1990 scale Hudson tooling to do the 18056 763E scale Hudson of 1997, the 18062 Warhorse Santa Fe Hudson, and the 18058 Century Club 773 as well. The tender tooling wasn't used again until the gold Hudson of 2000.

 

I have the Lionel loc. and tender.  I have never noticed roughness or other issues with these pieces.

 

Todd Wagner:  THANKS for the additional, pertinent, accurate, first-hand information.  

Not quite. You're correct about the 18056 "763E" model of 1997, but the 18062 Santa Fe Warhorse and 18058/38015 Century Club 773's used the original 700E tooling, which eventually became the 773 tooling in 1950.

 

Therefore, the "new" 700E locomotive tooling had only been used twice prior to the gold model in 2000.

 

TRW

Hmmmm, stories..... OK, here's one.

 

I started with the company in October of 1999, and when I arrived there wasn't ANY high-end product planned to celebrate Lionel's 100th Anniversary. There was a train set and a separate-sale boxcar planned, but that was it. Part of the problem was that no one was heading-up the marketing department at the time, instead there were a bunch of us on the "marketing committee." (Note to anyone involved in business today... marketing should NEVER be run by committee. Anyway, I digress.)

 

I honestly don't remember how the idea came up to do a gold 700E, but I knew that my boss wasn't for it. I was hired in as the company's product researcher, so I really didn't have any authority at the time to officially change the product line. To make a long story short, my boss ended-up being away from the office for an extended period of time, and a decision had to me made. A co-worker (whose title at the time was associate product manager, I think) and I couldn't come up with anything better, so we banded together and went ahead with the product.

 

The engineering department wasn't too happy about only having a year to get it produced, but my boss was REALLY ticked as he knew something we didn't. We learned why about six months later when a J1e Hudson casting using brand-new tooling arrived from Korea. What happened afterwards might still be a bit sensitive, but to cut-to-the-chase, the gold 700E was produced on time in late 2000 using the 1990's Lionel 700E tooling. And that mysterious J1e would eventually surface somewhere else...

 

TRW

Hey Bob, no problem. Those years were interesting, no doubt!

 

Hopefully, we'll have a chance to cross paths at York again one of these days.

 

Regards,

TRW

That would explain the rough castings that people complained about on the 18056, but I'm sure that Lionel, after doing the 783, 784, and 785, had realized that the original 773 tooling was too worn to continue - the 785 shows the signs of wear on its boiler. This would also explain why Lionel decided to bring in all new tooling for the 18005 Hudson itself.

 

Also, the 18062 and 18058 have details on them such as the boiler front handrail and the solid metal handrail stancions that were not present on previous semi scale Hudsons.

Very interesting stuff

I love stories with a smattering of intrigue and drama.

Now lets see, where have I seen a nice model of a J1e..........

 

Rod

I have both, the Lionel (24K) plated and the MTH  (18K). I just love them. The ultimate display item. The Lionel model looks more golden, because of the higher plating. Both have trucks and some details that are platinum plated. My Lionel is displayed next to the 75th Anniv. Gateman, a perfect match. The MTH is on the fireplace mantle(ironically in the CC Hudson display case). I didn't want to give that impression, but when folks see all the trains, then see a gold engine, they get flored!

Was it the same tool that produced to scale 700E and the 773 detuned Hudsons?  Or are the castings different (ignoring lack of add on details).  Also, beginning with the Century Club 773 and ending with the 2005 Super O Set...Lionel began cutting away at the casting to make room for stuff. 

 

And the 2005 Hudson set...did it use the same tool as the 783 Hudson?

 

This late 90's era of Lionel is fascinating.  I loved most of it except those cheesy diecast (non sprung) trucks that ended up on some PWC freight cars...like the Seaboard add-on freight set for the NW2.  These trucks looked out of place.

 

I have never understand why MPC went with those Symington Wayne trucks and not just a clean delrin retool of the great looking AAR truck Lionel was using.  IMO the Lionel AAR trucks is one of the best looking out there..in terms of non-scale offerings.

The casting used to make the 783 was the 1964 version of the original 773 tooling, which explains why it had no valve guides. This same tooling would be made for the 784 and 785. After the 785, which meant almost 11,000 engines made from the same tooling in the modern era alone, the tooling was replaced by the all new tooling made for the new 5340 1-700E Hudson.

 

But I do believe Lionel did stop with the casting after the PWC 773 set, at least until the Vision Line Hudson appeared 5 years later - since Lionel did use quite a bit of original looking 700E tooling to make it look like the original.

I wonder when the next gold locomotive will be made, and which model?
While not a big anniversary, Lionel will be 115 years old soon. Perhaps they are planning already

As the Vision Hudson?

The caboose is the hard to find part of the deal

 

 

 

 

 

What I find interesting is how at the same time, both Lionel and MTH decided to celebrate the turning of a calendar with a gold plated Hudson. Perhaps the folks at MTH figured they would get a jump on what they would find an obvious move by Big L. Yet Lionel was not so quick on that move.
Even more interesting is what parts they chose to plate. I think having the steam chest a different color (chrome?)on the Lionel loco makes it stand out more.

That is platinum plating.  I agree, it stands out even more.

Kind of like how American cars from the 50's always had chrome bumpers and trim~

John, what was your wife's E-mail address? Don 

MTH seems to have piggy-backed on other manufacturers' (plural) proposed production for quite some time...so, yes, "jump on" seems correct.   Just MO.

MTH seems to have piggy-backed on other manufacturers' (plural) proposed production for quite some time...so, yes, "jump on" seems correct.   Just MO.)))))

MTH took this hobby out of the Dark Ages... Lionels most exotic item was a Hudson and the hardest thing on their plate was what to name the forthcoming yearly geep..Just MO 

Who knew?  A gold plated Polar Express Berk in the 2013 Christmas Catalog!!

 

I have wondered if the casting of the Gold Hudson is a different material than the Zamack of the other Scale/773 Hudsons?  It seems lighter to me.

WOW!  What an absolutely interesting thread.  Only on the OGR forum will you find this kind of stuff.  I love it.  Thanks guys.