Lionel 2017 Signature Edition Catalog Page 55…………Are the Rotary Gondolas in 4-Packs and 2-Packs cancelled?

Frank,

Thought I read here about a month ago that these cars were part of the "tooling holdup" with customs in Romania -- along with the milk cars.  Supposedly that's all been resolved, and the Romanian factory should be in full swing by now cranking out rolling stock as fast as we can pre-order them.      We shall see.

David

Good Day David,

Thanks for the update! 

My thinking..........the people in Romania are smart and hard working people. I look forward to seeing these cars. I have internal company business with co-workers in Bucharest daily. Great people! 

Regards,

Frank 

Rocky Mountaineer posted:

Frank,

Thought I read here about a month ago that these cars were part of the "tooling holdup" with customs in Romania -- along with the milk cars.  Supposedly that's all been resolved, and the Romanian factory should be in full swing by now cranking out rolling stock as fast as we can pre-order them.      We shall see.

David

What I find interesting here is the milk reefer. If I am not mistaken, and I think Mike Reagan may have confirmed this one of the times the reefers were delayed, is that the reefers are the same as those produced in the Century Club II Niagara Milk Train so the tooling should exist. In fact, the NYC Reefer is the next sequential road number to the set and add-on cars.

Anyway, we wait...

Mike

The milk reefer tooling was sent to Romania along w/ the rotary gondola tooling. Hence the customs issues.

The milk reefer is in production now. The rotary gondolas will be made after that. Both projects will deliver this year.

Dave

Dave Olson posted:

The milk reefer tooling was sent to Romania along w/ the rotary gondola tooling. Hence the customs issues.

The milk reefer is in production now. The rotary gondolas will be made after that. Both projects will deliver this year.

Dave

Hi all

Wanted to correct myself. The rotary gondolas are actually being produced first. Then the milk cars will be made. Got those backwards above.

Thanks!

Has anyone heard an update on the rotary gondolas? Are they still being made? 

Bill

?

Jon

Dave Olson posted:

Dave Olson posted:

The milk reefer tooling was sent to Romania along w/ the rotary gondola tooling. Hence the customs issues.

The milk reefer is in production now. The rotary gondolas will be made after that. Both projects will deliver this year.

Dave

Hi all

Wanted to correct myself. The rotary gondolas are actually being produced first. Then the milk cars will be made. Got those backwards above.

Thanks!

Maybe an update from Lionel is needed, been quite a while since the last Lionel update.

@Dave Olson 

Hopefully, someone from Lionel will tell us the current status, but at Fall 2018 York  Ryan told me that, in regards to the coal cars, they had lost their deposit and had not been successful at retrieving their tooling.  He said that probably new tooling would have to be produced if the cars were to be made.  He had no information on a date for possible production.

We have to recut the tools in China. The Romanian gov't won't give us our tools back. Hoping they'll ship by Q4.

I was wondering about the same thing for the Conrail StationSounds Dome Car.

Dave Olson posted:

We have to recut the tools in China. The Romanian gov't won't give us our tools back. Hoping they'll ship by Q4.

That’s strange as Romania is a EU member. I can’t think of any reason for those tools to be impounded unless the customs declaration/import taxes are the issue? 

I’ve come across this with work, if you bring certain equipment/materials  into a country you have to pay taxes on the value of anything that’s staying in the country. Anything that leaves with you at the end of the job (tools etc.) is not taxed. Even applies within the U.K. as we had it with a job on one of the Channel Islands.

Nick

Dave Olson posted:

We have to recut the tools in China. The Romanian gov't won't give us our tools back. Hoping they'll ship by Q4.

Dave, will they still retain the good truck without the thumbtack?

I hope that Lionel is investigating the manufacture of all new products in the USA because it appears that the other countries are confiscating their tooling. I don't see that happening here.

Dave Olson posted:

We have to recut the tools in China. The Romanian gov't won't give us our tools back. Hoping they'll ship by Q4.

Thank you for that update!

Bill

Art Howes posted:

I hope that Lionel is investigating the manufacture of all new products in the USA because it appears that the other countries are confiscating their tooling. I don't see that happening here.

A nice thought, but we have to remember that statistically, this incident is insignificant compared to the large number of products being made each year where this scenario does not happen.

Bringing EVERYTHING back would increase the costs dramatically across the board.

Dave45681 posted:

Art Howes posted:

I hope that Lionel is investigating the manufacture of all new products in the USA because it appears that the other countries are confiscating their tooling. I don't see that happening here.

A nice thought, but we have to remember that statistically, this incident is insignificant compared to the large number of products being made each year where this scenario does not happen.

Bringing EVERYTHING back would increase the costs dramatically across the board.

 

If we hadn't become the "cheaper is better" generation, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in!  I agree with Art.   None of the things happening in QC or lag in production would be happening IF production was here in the U.S.!  Its not just model trains.   Everything is junk anymore. 

Jim

carsntrains posted:

 

If we hadn't become the "cheaper is better" generation, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in!  I agree with Art.   None of the things happening in QC or lag in production would be happening IF production was here in the U.S.!  Its not just model trains.   Everything is junk anymore. 

Jim

I'm not defending it, just realizing what the result would be if it happens!

Once those levels of profit vs. investment are achieved, you aren't going back.  No manager is going to get kudos for spending more money to make the product, so the delta (or at least a large portion of it) must go to the cost to the consumer if you do so.

The accountants (or the managers who review the accountants summaries) rule the show.

Dave,

Can you please make the Aluminum Coal Gondola grab irons out of bent metal wire to look more realistic, instead of the chunky molded-in plastic grab irons when they have to be remade? 

Can the Aluminum Coal Gondolas be cast out of actual aluminum, so that they do not have be painted in aluminum? 

Thank you

carsntrains posted:

If we hadn't become the "cheaper is better" generation, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in!  I agree with Art.   None of the things happening in QC or lag in production would be happening IF production was here in the U.S.!  Its not just model trains.   Everything is junk anymore. 

Jim

Well thats a gross assumption. The majority of items on the shelf in any store are made overseas. Certainly all the big screen TV's ,cell phones, appliances, computers etc,etc. Are all made in china.

The only things falling apart out of the box are our trains.

When its hard enough to get a burger and fries right here in the States, what makes you think "we" still posses the pride in manufacturing to deliver quality trains?  The crayola hopper that the crayons don't fit in was assembled and decorated here, no one in final production bothered to see if the crayons fit.

I learned my lessons buying domestic automobiles. 

Its the pride and quality of the manufacturer contracted to do the work. No matter what country they're from.

If trains were made here, and the prices doubled ,but there were still all of the out of box issues, what would be gained?

My best trains are stamped "made in Korea" on the bottom, period. Detail is better, fit and finish is better, tolerances are tighter, and the they all worked right out of the box. No smoke unit problems, gearbox problems, parts falling off... just put it on the track and run it.

If it was 1950, sure USA made all the way. With todays generation of  American workers, its a "crapshoot".

Is the milk cars the VL milk cars?

RickO posted:

carsntrains posted:

If we hadn't become the "cheaper is better" generation, we wouldn't be in the mess we are in!  I agree with Art.   None of the things happening in QC or lag in production would be happening IF production was here in the U.S.!  Its not just model trains.   Everything is junk anymore. 

Jim

Well thats a gross assumption. The majority of items on the shelf in any store are made overseas. Certainly all the big screen TV's ,cell phones, appliances, computers etc,etc. Are all made in china.

The only things falling apart out of the box are our trains.

When its hard enough to get a burger and fries right here in the States, what makes you think "we" still posses the pride in manufacturing to deliver quality trains?  The crayola hopper that the crayons don't fit in was assembled and decorated here, no one in final production bothered to see if the crayons fit.

I learned my lessons buying domestic automobiles. 

Its the pride and quality of the manufacturer contracted to do the work. No matter what country they're from.

If trains were made here, and the prices doubled ,but there were still all of the out of box issues, what would be gained?

My best trains are stamped "made in Korea" on the bottom, period. Detail is better, fit and finish is better, tolerances are tighter, and the they all worked right out of the box. No smoke unit problems, gearbox problems, parts falling off... just put it on the track and run it.

If it was 1950, sure USA made all the way. With todays generation of  American workers, its a "crapshoot".

Gross assumption?  Which is easier.  Having a bit of control on a manufacturing facility that you are at everyday.  Or doing the same in a factory you hardly ever see and do not own?  

There are plenty of good people that are good workers in America.  You may have to weed out the not so good.  But it can be done. And why does it have to be a manufacturer contracted to do the work?  A company can't make their own products anymore?

I dont know how crappy domestic cars are.    I had a Taurus for 10 years that I bought new.   All it ever needed was tires, brakes, and a battery.   Oh and a coolant bottle.   200,000 miles I traded it in on a 2011 F150, that has served me well!  And by the way.  There are NO automobiles in the US that are made in China.  They cant be sold here.  

And just how do you know we would have to same problems in production here as we do in China?   hmm

Jim. 

I have faith in the American worker.  Its going to happen.   When is the question.

BobbyD posted:

Dave Olson posted:

We have to recut the tools in China. The Romanian gov't won't give us our tools back. Hoping they'll ship by Q4.

Dave, will they still retain the good truck without the thumbtack?

Don't know about the milk cars, but the previous rotary gondolas all had the thumbtack coupler on the working coupler end.

JFC454 posted:BobbyD posted:

Dave Olson posted:

We have to recut the tools in China. The Romanian gov't won't give us our tools back. Hoping they'll ship by Q4.

Dave, will they still retain the good truck without the thumbtack?

Don't know about the milk cars, but the previous rotary gondolas all had the thumbtack coupler on the working coupler end.

Dave,

Please consider some more Conrail Bathgons in the future