Lionel 226E

Lionel's 224, 225 & 226: Precision, "bullet-proof" engines that will easily last another century. They knew how to build them back in that day, and DID!  ☺

Same goes for the early post war 224/675/2025 motors.  There is not much difference between their pre-war cousins mechanically.  "Bullet proof" is a mild term for their quality.  Never bought one, even as a junker, that wouldn't run with minimal lube and tuning.

My 226E surprised the heck out of me with how nice, quiet and precise it is. Puts modern stuff to shame.

JLC didn't want to disappoint Children, that's why he made trains that would last a lifetime.

bmoran4 posted:

My 226E surprised the heck out of me with how nice, quiet and precise it is. Puts modern stuff to shame.

This may apply here...Technophobia (from Greek τέχνη technē, "art, skill, craft"^[1] and φόβος phobos, "fear"^[2]) is the fear or dislike of advanced technology or complex devices, especially computers. ^[3]Although there are numerous interpretations of technophobia, they become more complex as technology continues to evolve. The term is generally used in the sense of an irrational fear, but others contend fears are justified. It is the opposite of technophilia. It is also known as technofear.......Pat

When the project lineup thins out ( does it ever? ) I have an ERR commander set aside for my 226.  Silky smooth types pair nicely with command control and the 226 is a perfect candidate.  My example was well used and refurbished in the past so no worries about hacking into a museum piece.

Bruce

harmonyards posted:

bmoran4 posted:

My 226E surprised the heck out of me with how nice, quiet and precise it is. Puts modern stuff to shame.

This may apply here...Technophobia (from Greek τέχνη technē, "art, skill, craft"^[1] and φόβος phobos, "fear"^[2]) is the fear or dislike of advanced technology or complex devices, especially computers. ^[3]Although there are numerous interpretations of technophobia, they become more complex as technology continues to evolve. The term is generally used in the sense of an irrational fear, but others contend fears are justified. It is the opposite of technophilia. It is also known as technofear.......Pat

@harmonyards makes quite an assumption there based on one single post of mine. I reaffirm my statement that the performance of my 226E puts modern stuff to shame as compared to any of my modern equipment including a Lionel Legacy Big Boy, Lionel S-1, Lionel SD70MAC just for starters...

I also find it quite rude to blow off the validity of my experience, my observations and my preferences for your preconceived notions and opinions leading to an interruption to our celebration of the 226E.

BMORAN4: WELL-STATED response. ☺

I have a good many pre-war and post-war Lionel engines and nothing in my entire roster runs as smoothly and quietly as my 226E, my 225E and 224.  Add to that as another posted has commented the 675 and 2025  2-6-2 early post-war engines because they are also unbelievably quiet and smooth running model steam locomotives as well.  I believe they all shared the same motors.  In the diesel family the early Lionel Alcos from the early 1950s were also great smooth running engines.  When I get tired of battling my neat looking and sounding modern motive power I revert to the early Lionel stuff; totally reliable and an absolute pleasure to operate after 60 to 80 years.   

I, too, like the original poster find the arrogance and condescension of the modern technocrats to be quite irritating and annoying.

bmoran4 posted:

harmonyards posted:

bmoran4 posted:

My 226E surprised the heck out of me with how nice, quiet and precise it is. Puts modern stuff to shame.

This may apply here...Technophobia (from Greek τέχνη technē, "art, skill, craft"^[1] and φόβος phobos, "fear"^[2]) is the fear or dislike of advanced technology or complex devices, especially computers. ^[3]Although there are numerous interpretations of technophobia, they become more complex as technology continues to evolve. The term is generally used in the sense of an irrational fear, but others contend fears are justified. It is the opposite of technophilia. It is also known as technofear.......Pat

@harmonyards makes quite an assumption there based on one single post of mine. I reaffirm my statement that the performance of my 226E puts modern stuff to shame as compared to any of my modern equipment including a Lionel Legacy Big Boy, Lionel S-1, Lionel SD70MAC just for starters...

I also find it quite rude to blow off the validity of my experience, my observations and my preferences for your preconceived notions and opinions leading to an interruption to our celebration of the 226E.

No doubt

harmonyards posted:

bmoran4 posted:

My 226E surprised the heck out of me with how nice, quiet and precise it is. Puts modern stuff to shame.

This may apply here...Technophobia (from Greek τέχνη technē, "art, skill, craft"^[1] and φόβος phobos, "fear"^[2]) is the fear or dislike of advanced technology or complex devices, especially computers. ^[3]Although there are numerous interpretations of technophobia, they become more complex as technology continues to evolve. The term is generally used in the sense of an irrational fear, but others contend fears are justified. It is the opposite of technophilia. It is also known as technofear.......Pat

NO NO not technophobia at all! Its called "COMMON SENSE!" Unless you enjoy being ripped off like I am - spending HUNDREDS of dollars on these ridiculous $3 circuit boards so my engine can talk? be serious! My wife talks enough I don't need to listen to my engines!

bmoran4 posted:

harmonyards posted:

bmoran4 posted:

My 226E surprised the heck out of me with how nice, quiet and precise it is. Puts modern stuff to shame.

This may apply here...Technophobia (from Greek τέχνη technē, "art, skill, craft"^[1] and φόβος phobos, "fear"^[2]) is the fear or dislike of advanced technology or complex devices, especially computers. ^[3]Although there are numerous interpretations of technophobia, they become more complex as technology continues to evolve. The term is generally used in the sense of an irrational fear, but others contend fears are justified. It is the opposite of technophilia. It is also known as technofear.......Pat

@harmonyards makes quite an assumption there based on one single post of mine. I reaffirm my statement that the performance of my 226E puts modern stuff to shame as compared to any of my modern equipment including a Lionel Legacy Big Boy, Lionel S-1, Lionel SD70MAC just for starters...

I also find it quite rude to blow off the validity of my experience, my observations and my preferences for your preconceived notions and opinions leading to an interruption to our celebration of the 226E.

AMEN!

OKHIKER posted:

I have a good many pre-war and post-war Lionel engines and nothing in my entire roster runs as smoothly and quietly as my 226E, my 225E and 224.  Add to that as another posted has commented the 675 and 2025  2-6-2 early post-war engines because they are also unbelievably quiet and smooth running model steam locomotives as well.  I believe they all shared the same motors.  In the diesel family the early Lionel Alcos from the early 1950s were also great smooth running engines.  When I get tired of battling my neat looking and sounding modern motive power I revert to the early Lionel stuff; totally reliable and an absolute pleasure to operate after 60 to 80 years.   

I, too, like the original poster find the arrogance and condescension of the modern technocrats to be quite irritating and annoying.

AMEN AMEN!!!!

non better than the 224/225/226E and 675s for running. 

I'm glad you're happy with your 226E and it runs well. I don't get how you think it runs better than your 773 or modern stuff though. I have experience as a kid running my dad's Postwar steam with spur gear motors (2065, 2025) and they are in no way, shape, or form anywhere near the performance of my MTH Premier Santa Fe 3460 class Hudsons, Southern Pacific GS4 Northern, or Santa Fe 5011 class Texas. They are all Pittman 9434 powered. They run slower, pull more, and all around perform in ways no Lionel spur gear powered steam locomotive could ever hope to. I would even think your Lionel 773 would run better than the 226E.

There is just no comparison to modern stuff, and this comes from a guy who owns and regularly runs three F3s and two GP7s with open frame motors and ERR AC Commanders. They run good for what they are but my modern can motor diesels can walk circles around them performance wise. 

@Lou1985, The 226E is a completely different experience than the 2065 and 2025 - it was just built so much better with better tolerances and runs like a swiss watch. Until you experience it yourself, you just don't know what you are missing or where we are coming from when we compare it.

It may be better built than the postwar spur gear motors but it's still not like a modern locomotive. If I cut the sounds off on my Premier Texas it's whisper quiet. No 226E is. Couple the Premier Texas and the 226E together and the Texas will drag that 226E around like it's not even there 😉.

It's the same argument that car guys make. "My 66 Mustang GT is so much better than new Mustangs. They don't make them like they used to." I'm glad. A 2020 Mustang GT is faster, handles better, lasts over 150k miles without a rebuild, and won't rust out in 3 years.

@Lou1985, not everything needs to be a competition or an argument - we are appreciating things for what they are in ways that strike us regardless of your ability to appreciate them in the same fashion.

These kind of arguments can't be won - it reminds me of some "fun disagreements" me and a coworker had around our "fun cars"...

I had just obtained an antique fire truck, and he a sports car. He was of the position that his sports car was better than my antique fire truck..

He asserted his sports car could go faster - I asserted I could reach the speed limit and any ability to go faster was "wasted" since it is "impossible" to use that capability regularly.

He then asserted that his sports car got the girls - I produced a picture of the antique fire truck filled with a cheer leading squad....

He asserted that he got better MPG - I calculated that the truck got more work done per gallon...

He asserted that he could get his vehicle serviced at the dealership - I showed mine could be rebuilt with a standard tool box....

And on and on and on all in good humor.

With all the complaints about the modern (current) motive power coming from the big 2 companies from what I've read on this forum alone, I can see why there are those among us like the old pre and post war motive power.  l'd have to agree that the frustration level of running modern motive power, especially with the risk of burning out a $3.00 circut board, would be frustrating.  Different likes for different people.   I personally like pre and postwar Steam power from both Lionel and American Flyer.  

I have 224e,225e, and 226e. They are probably my favorite engines. I have  a224e pulling 8 or 9 post war 027 cars around my layout now. Love the sound of those prewar whistles in the Die-Cast tenders!

Where can I get that $3.00 circuit board? I'll take a couple.

Do not have the 226E but have the other 675, 2025 baldwin wheels and 224E some say they have the same motor i do not know fr sure peraps the 226E has more laminations but thy do look the same from schematics i have seen and they all run like a top.

Another type of lionel is a double worm drive made in 1946 only with this configuration 726 now they can be problematic but when running properly they are hard to beat can pull and run and run and run while the rollers stay only warm to the touch.Have several along with there smoke bulb at night it actually looks like a flickering white flame coming out of the smoke stack unlike any other smoke unit i have seen in action. Have 2 with a 3rd parts engine and several spare nice wheel sets which drop in the frame no wheel puller or press needed to do so.unlike the 2020 also made in "46".

The 1946 lionel 2020 1 year only similar double worm drive smoke bulb is another good one but the 726 model a better puller.

In short for what they are those older 40s engine with the baldwin wheels seemd to have tight tolerances and ran like a sewing machine or some say a top !

Todays can motors and circuit boards on the other hand are really nice most run top notch it's just when something goes wrong it can be expensive to fix i have some of MTH ps2 and ps3 that are great runners and pullers talkers etc and happy with as well.

I have to admit, I have a couple of “$1000 engines” and some SJCC scale rolling stock in my On30 collection, MMI 2-8-2s updated to DCC and sound. They are very nice things but I wanted something easier from O Gauge.

I’ve now got a Williams brass USRA Pacific which cost me a little over $100, a K Line semi-scale Hudson which is rather good (although the Rail Sounds is more like a concrete mixer than a steam loco, but the bell and whistle are fun. The next project is to sort out the control system for the O27 “door layout” and build a O42 and/or O54 test loop so I can run larger stock between club nights. 

First off and foremost, I respect BMORAN4 for the knowledge he brings on the subject of all things prewar and postwar. I’ve seen him respond to several threads in regards to repairs on that particular subject matter, and from what I’ve seen, it’s always spot on, and very helpful to others on the forum. He’s right up there with Chuck, Rob, and the others who are also very knowledgeable about that stuff.....I do not knock the very well made Lionel 226E or it’s siblings, fine runners for what they are...perhaps my haste in replying to BMORAN4’s reply seemed like a jab, and infact, it was...so let’s debate the validity of the original reply made by BMORAN4 to which he says a 226E “puts modern stuff to shame” ......ok, if it does so, how so??...if I’m proven wrong by my reply that some of y’all are just simply scared of the newer technology, then I’ll remove my reply with a full apology..., However, some statements made on this thread have no merit to even stand on, particularly the 3.00 dollar circuit board replies.....where in the world did you find your information from???...or is it since you’re scared of it, it can’t be good....I’m not here to sugar coat anything, if you can’t back up your replies, then I stand behind mine....if you’re scared of the newest technology, then just say so...but to make a statement that a 226 puts a Legacy locomotive to shame??.....I gotta hear this...unless of course, that was just shot from the hip.......Pat

harmonyards posted:

First off and foremost, I respect BMORAN4 for the knowledge he brings on the subject of all things prewar and postwar. I’ve seen him respond to several threads in regards to repairs on that particular subject matter, and from what I’ve seen, it’s always spot on, and very helpful to others on the forum. He’s right up there with Chuck, Rob, and the others who are also very knowledgeable about that stuff.....I do not knock the very well made Lionel 226E or it’s siblings, fine runners for what they are...perhaps my haste in replying to BMORAN4’s reply seemed like a jab, and infact, it was...so let’s debate the validity of the original reply made by BMORAN4 to which he says a 226E “puts modern stuff to shame” ......ok, if it does so, how so??...if I’m proven wrong by my reply that some of y’all are just simply scared of the newer technology, then I’ll remove my reply with a full apology..., However, some statements made on this thread have no merit to even stand on, particularly the 3.00 dollar circuit board replies.....where in the world did you find your information from???...or is it since you’re scared of it, it can’t be good....I’m not here to sugar coat anything, if you can’t back up your replies, then I stand behind mine....if you’re scared of the newest technology, then just say so...but to make a statement that a 226 puts a Legacy locomotive to shame??.....I gotta hear this...unless of course, that was just shot from the hip.......Pat

Unfortunately this thread has diverged significantly from the original posters annoyance  about the rude comment regarding some people being afraid of the new technology.  He took issue with that comment and so did I.  I am not fearful of the new technology and I have more than my share of command control engines and run them regularly.  I also enjoy both pre and post war Lionel, American Flyer and Marx.  That being said,  I still do not understand some, not all, of the modern era advocates need to belittle and insult those whose opinions are different than theirs .  Some people love the old Lionel products so much because of their simplicity and reliability hence they feel it is superior to the modern technolgic wonders which at times become maddening because of their breakdowns etc. They and those who differ with them are entitled to their opinions.  There is plenty of room in this hobby for both schools of thought.  Condescension and arrogance are not needed.

My experience has been this:

I own several conventional engines--PW and MPC and early LTI--and, with one exception (an engine apparently mistreated and stored poorly for years, they are all FULLY functional.  Every feature designed into them works as designed, all the time, without fuss or muss.  

I own several engines with electronics boards in them.  Some are E-unit/sound combinations; some are TMCC or Legacy.  With NO exceptions, NONE of them is FULLY functional.  all of them have at least one--and usually several--features inoperative.  All are also fussy and picky about the track.

I do not fear the technology, but I don't *like* it.  Its reliability is in serious question.  I have enough hassles in my life that I don't want my hobby to create more.

BTW, a phobia is technically a pathological condition, and I don't believe that it is a good idea to sling such attributions around.  Someone who disagrees with you is not necessarily evil or defective (despite the prevailing political winds).

For hobbyists like me, I have long advocated scale-sized engines with basic detailing and basic electrical systems.

As for $3 circuit boards:  it may take many more dollars to purchase one, but I doubt it takes many more to *create* one.

palallin posted:

My experience has been this:

I own several conventional engines--PW and MPC and early LTI--and, with one exception (an engine apparently mistreated and stored poorly for years, they are all FULLY functional.  Every feature designed into them works as designed, all the time, without fuss or muss.  

I own several engines with electronics boards in them.  Some are E-unit/sound combinations; some are TMCC or Legacy.  With NO exceptions, NONE of them is FULLY functional.  all of them have at least one--and usually several--features inoperative.  All are also fussy and picky about the track.

I do not fear the technology, but I don't *like* it.  Its reliability is in serious question.  I have enough hassles in my life that I don't want my hobby to create more.

BTW, a phobia is technically a pathological condition, and I don't believe that it is a good idea to sling such attributions around.  Someone who disagrees with you is not necessarily evil or defective (despite the prevailing political winds).

For hobbyists like me, I have long advocated scale-sized engines with basic detailing and basic electrical systems.

 

As for $3 circuit boards:  it may take many more dollars to purchase one, but I doubt it takes many more to *create* one.

Exactly. I own alot of heavy equipment. I had newer equipment but after constant headaches with " new and improved " I went back to the older caterpillar equipment without computers. A couple simple wires for the glow plugs and starter and the rest is all mechanical. Throttle linkage, steering, tranny etc. They run every time.  Or **** near. And if not, it needs no computer to figure it out. Just my opinion.

I too own from almost all generations. The newer ones  with circuit boards are easier to fry with short circuits and stray voltage. I dont think you will fry a pre or post war vintage with stray or transient voltage spikes. So for me durability goes with the old stuff . Detail goes to the new stuff but at a cost. I like it all!!  Unfortunately for my wallet.

bmoran4 posted:

harmonyards posted:

bmoran4 posted:

My 226E surprised the heck out of me with how nice, quiet and precise it is. Puts modern stuff to shame.

This may apply here...Technophobia (from Greek τέχνη technē, "art, skill, craft"^[1] and φόβος phobos, "fear"^[2]) is the fear or dislike of advanced technology or complex devices, especially computers. ^[3]Although there are numerous interpretations of technophobia, they become more complex as technology continues to evolve. The term is generally used in the sense of an irrational fear, but others contend fears are justified. It is the opposite of technophilia. It is also known as technofear.......Pat

@harmonyards makes quite an assumption there based on one single post of mine. I reaffirm my statement that the performance of my 226E puts modern stuff to shame as compared to any of my modern equipment including a Lionel Legacy Big Boy, Lionel S-1, Lionel SD70MAC just for starters...

I also find it quite rude to blow off the validity of my experience, my observations and my preferences for your preconceived notions and opinions leading to an interruption to our celebration of the 226E.

YEAH!

Lou1985 posted:

I'm glad you're happy with your 226E and it runs well. I don't get how you think it runs better than your 773 or modern stuff though. I have experience as a kid running my dad's Postwar steam with spur gear motors (2065, 2025) and they are in no way, shape, or form anywhere near the performance of my MTH Premier Santa Fe 3460 class Hudsons, Southern Pacific GS4 Northern, or Santa Fe 5011 class Texas. They are all Pittman 9434 powered. They run slower, pull more, and all around perform in ways no Lionel spur gear powered steam locomotive could ever hope to. I would even think your Lionel 773 would run better than the 226E.

There is just no comparison to modern stuff, and this comes from a guy who owns and regularly runs three F3s and two GP7s with open frame motors and ERR AC Commanders. They run good for what they are but my modern can motor diesels can walk circles around them performance wise. 

Yeah RIGHT! I wanna see where this new stuff will be in 80 years LOL!

bmoran4 posted:

@Lou1985, not everything needs to be a competition or an argument - we are appreciating things for what they are in ways that strike us regardless of your ability to appreciate them in the same fashion.

These kind of arguments can't be won - it reminds me of some "fun disagreements" me and a coworker had around our "fun cars"...

I had just obtained an antique fire truck, and he a sports car. He was of the position that his sports car was better than my antique fire truck..

He asserted his sports car could go faster - I asserted I could reach the speed limit and any ability to go faster was "wasted" since it is "impossible" to use that capability regularly.

He then asserted that his sports car got the girls - I produced a picture of the antique fire truck filled with a cheer leading squad....

He asserted that he got better MPG - I calculated that the truck got more work done per gallon...

He asserted that he could get his vehicle serviced at the dealership - I showed mine could be rebuilt with a standard tool box....

And on and on and on all in good humor.

I just posted something about the people in this hobby having something functionally wrong with them. It seems that NO MATTER WHAT is posted these morlocks pop up and start criticizing and just NEEDING to say something to the contrary maybe to show they they know how to type all I know is this is SICK! 

An opinion is exactly that and if you can't accept one other than your own then crawl back in your hole dammit and leave everyone else alone!

John H posted:

Where can I get that $3.00 circuit board? I'll take a couple.

go to China where they are made you could buy them by the baskets! Then bring them back here and sell t hem for $110 like these other companies do! This is the new "American" way. 

dogdoc posted:

I too own from almost all generations. The newer ones  with circuit boards are easier to fry with short circuits and stray voltage. I dont think you will fry a pre or post war vintage with stray or transient voltage spikes. So for me durability goes with the old stuff . Detail goes to the new stuff but at a cost. I like it all!!  Unfortunately for my wallet.

well said!

All of them have their strengths and weaknesses. I have all generations also. I am trying to give all of it track time instead of running my favorites on and on and on. The jury is still out on how long the modern locomotives are going to last. I suspect it will depend on how well the modern engines are supported i.e. how easy it will be to get good repair work on them. Hopefully, having a market for this work will keep good people doing it.