Lionel 28068 (Rio Grande Hudson Jr.) Signal Sounds Tender - No Chuff or Talk

If it is a SIGNAL SOUNDS tender, then Whistle and Bell are the ONLY sounds that tender will have.

a TRAIN SOUNDS tender will have Chuff, Whistle and Bell, But ONLY ONE SOUND at a time. While running a TS tender will Chuff, if you ring the Bell, the bell will override the Chuff, and the Whistle will override Chuff or Bell.

a RAIL SOUNDS tender is a Sound on Sound system, where the Bell will ring with the Chuff still in the background, and the Whistle  blow with the Chuff and Bell still working.

if it IS a SIGNAL SOUNDS tender, it doesn't sound like there is anything Wrong with it, you are expecting more from it than it does 

Doug

Thanks Doug!  

I'll add that my confusion stemmed from the fact that this engine/tender combo was second hand and did not come with instructions in the box.  So I downloaded them from Lionel's website.  In those instructions it mentioned "chuff, TowerCom, etc.", nothing about Signal Sounds - Bell & Whistle only.  

Thanks for clarifying!

Fud

I Am not familiar with that particular model, but many SIGNAL SOUNDS locomotives are upgrade able to RAIL SOUNDS and/or TMCC, with separate upgrade kits for each, with an electro-coupled an option with the TMCC upgrade.

If you Have trouble finding the Lionel kits I believe that Electric Rail Road (ERR) made after market kits for both upgrades 

Doug

Good info, thanks!

If the Cab number is 2001, then the loco was delivered as a command ready engine, meaning only conventional control of the reverse unit and only Signalsounds in the tender (whistle/bell only). The tender can be upgraded to have Railsounds using the following two PCB's;

691RSPRA01 (RS Power board)

691PCB1060 (Railsounds audio board)

You will need to pop the shell of the loco and move the jumper for the chuff signal to make it back through the tether (as well as insert the green wire from the tender tether to the 4-position Leoco connector on the RS motherboard) for the chuffing to work properly. The manual you downloaded was like the "command controlled" version and not the conventional version.

Thanks,

Mike

Lionel

This engine was originally offered through JC Penney and also came with a display case.

Be careful -- most of the information about the "upgradeability" of this piece mentioned above is incorrect.

As Ed H posted, this piece was an exclusive made for JCPenney in 2001. It came with a SignalSounds tender, which only has whistle and bell sounds. (Therefore, it seems like the OP's tender is working correctly.)

The manual that Lionel shows for this locomotive on their website isn't right. It was for a later version of this locomotive with RailSounds.

Unfortunately, there isn't really anything upgradeable about this piece. The locomotive comes with a standard 103 e-unit, which is not TMCC-compatible. While you could technically plug in a RailSounds 4 audio and power board to the tender motherboard, there isn't any way for the tender to see a "chuff" command.

And if there really is a 9-volt battery plug inside the tender, it shouldn't be there as it doesn't serve any function.

I hope this helps.

TRW

Wow, great info guys!  I really appreciate it!

Fud

The chuff switch was run off the tender axle driven by a cam on the axle. There is no tether. I have 2 of these. One with SS and the other with TS. Nice running engines

PaperTRW posted:

Be careful -- most of the information about the "upgradeability" of this piece mentioned above is incorrect.

As Ed H posted, this piece was an exclusive made for JCPenney in 2001. It came with a SignalSounds tender, which only has whistle and bell sounds. (Therefore, it seems like the OP's tender is working correctly.)

The manual that Lionel shows for this locomotive on their website isn't right. It was for a later version of this locomotive with RailSounds.

Unfortunately, there isn't really anything upgradeable about this piece. The locomotive comes with a standard 103 e-unit, which is not TMCC-compatible. While you could technically plug in a RailSounds 4 audio and power board to the tender motherboard, there isn't any way for the tender to see a "chuff" command.

And if there really is a 9-volt battery plug inside the tender, it shouldn't be there as it doesn't serve any function.

I hope this helps.

TRW

 

 

I don't know why you would say that "most of the information about the "upgradeability" of this piece mentioned above is incorrect"

I said that, I am not familiar with that particular model, but MANY Signal Sounds locomotives ARE Upgradeable to TMCC and/or Railsounds. I didn't say that Particular model was.

Mike Reagan said that, IF it is cab #2001, it was delivered COMMAND READY, and IS UPGRADEABLE, and listed the Lionel parts required to do so.

Mike may have thrown me under the bus, on a previous product defect, but I suspect that he knows what he is talking about, with this locomotive, He does work in Lionel's service dept. I don't know what your experience, or knowledge is regarding Lionel products.

The 9 volt battery plug, that probably really IS in there, Probably Really does Belong in there, AND serves a Purpose, it should be in there to maintain the sound system during power interruptions, such as conventionally cycling the "E" Unit during direction changes.

Doug

It is best to open the tender and provide some pictures.   Certain models are made in many road names over a course of several years and different electronics are provided.  Some sound board are single stand alone, others are modular.  The problem is generic or revised instruction can be posted on the web that doesn't necessarily apply to your engine.

Signal sounds behaves as described, but if this is the upgradeable version you can typically add Conventional RailSounds board and gain chuff and talk, but you need to add the chuff switch.

Lionel even made TMCC engines with only signal sounds.  In those cases it is upgradeable to Command Railsounds.

The old Lionel Railsounds starter set where the hot item. They had RS and battery back up.  Those tender would sell for $100 because folks want those tenders to use with more expensive sets that did not have sounds.   Like the Army WWII set as an example that only had Signal Sounds.  That is what I did.  G

challenger3980 posted:

PaperTRW posted:

Be careful -- most of the information about the "upgradeability" of this piece mentioned above is incorrect.

As Ed H posted, this piece was an exclusive made for JCPenney in 2001. It came with a SignalSounds tender, which only has whistle and bell sounds. (Therefore, it seems like the OP's tender is working correctly.)

The manual that Lionel shows for this locomotive on their website isn't right. It was for a later version of this locomotive with RailSounds.

Unfortunately, there isn't really anything upgradeable about this piece. The locomotive comes with a standard 103 e-unit, which is not TMCC-compatible. While you could technically plug in a RailSounds 4 audio and power board to the tender motherboard, there isn't any way for the tender to see a "chuff" command.

And if there really is a 9-volt battery plug inside the tender, it shouldn't be there as it doesn't serve any function.

I hope this helps.

TRW

I don't know why you would say that "most of the information about the "upgradeability" of this piece mentioned above is incorrect"

I said that, I am not familiar with that particular model, but MANY Signal Sounds locomotives ARE Upgradeable to TMCC and/or Railsounds. I didn't say that Particular model was.

Mike Reagan said that, IF it is cab #2001, it was delivered COMMAND READY, and IS UPGRADEABLE, and listed the Lionel parts required to do so.

Mike may have thrown me under the bus, on a previous product defect, but I suspect that he knows what he is talking about, with this locomotive, He does work in Lionel's service dept. I don't know what your experience, or knowledge is regarding Lionel products.

The 9 volt battery plug, that probably really IS in there, Probably Really does Belong in there, AND serves a Purpose, it should be in there to maintain the sound system during power interruptions, such as conventionally cycling the "E" Unit during direction changes.

Doug

Doug,

I didn't direct my comments very well. Your summary of the different sound systems is accurate, as is your comment about "many" (although I'd likely use the word "some") SignalSounds locomotives being TMCC and RailSounds upgradeable.

But even though this locomotive does have a 2001 cab number, it is definitely not upgradeable using the standard parts normally associated with these upgrades. I'm guessing that Mike is confusing this locomotive with the slightly-larger Hudson and Pacifics that were upgradeable in both TMCC and/or RailSounds. (These other locomotives are the ones now used for the LionChief line.)

The purpose of my post wasn't to call anyone out, but rather to prevent someone from ordering $85+ worth of boards thinking that they could be added to this product with satisfactory results. With regard to my experience or knowledge of Lionel products, I was the manager responsible for bringing this product to market.

As I mentioned above, the tender motherboard will accept a RailSounds power supply and audio board, but there is no hardware, either in the locomotive or tender, to generate a chuff signal. Could this somehow be added? Sure, but that is definitely outside the range of the "upgradeable" program and more involved than swapping out a few boards.

Lastly, the 9-volt battery serves no function in the SignalSounds environment. Perhaps the Korean factory had wiring harnesses already assembled used on other locomotives.

TRW

TRW,

 I didn't know of your involvement with Lionel, or this product, knowing that, will give your future advice more credibility, Mike R's involvement with Lionel is a known factor, but being human he possibly made a mistake in this case. I apologize for questioning your credentials.

 My experience with Signal Sounds locomotives is mainly with the Harriman Consolidations and traditional Pacifics, which I have both SS and RS version of each, and a few others. All of my SS locomotives came delivered as "Upgradeable" which is why I stated "Many" are upgradeable, not knowing if "ALL" were upgradeable.

The 9 volt harness likely was a matter of using an existing harness rather than creating, producing and stocking multiple harnesses, when a more inclusive harness could be used in many applications, even if all the features are not used in every application, that is something that the automotive industry has done for many years.

I also apologize for taking your reply a bit more personally than I should have

Doug